PHP Alive and Kicking Episode 14 – Dan Newns
Dan’s programming journey started in secondary school with Visual Basic—specifically building a cinema booking system. But it was university where things got real: HTML with tables (no CSS!), lots of style tags, and a very old version of PHP. If you’ve been around long enough to remember that era, you know exactly what he’s talking about. And if you haven’t? Be grateful.
Speaking Laravel and Your Language
Here’s a problem Dan noticed at previous agencies: sales teams would sell, sell, sell, and developers would end up working late nights trying to deliver something completely different from what the client expected. The disconnect was brutal. At Jump 24, they do something different—they’ve mastered the art of “client-speaking language.” Translating technical concepts without losing the client in jargon means fewer surprises, fewer miscommunications, and projects that actually match expectations. It’s not just about knowing Laravel; it’s about knowing how to explain Laravel to people who’ve never heard of it.
The 15-File Edit Problem
You know that feeling when you look at someone’s code and realize a simple change requires editing 15 different files? Dan does too, and he’s built Jump 24 around avoiding exactly that nightmare. The team has found the balance—code that’s elegant without being overcomplicated, maintainable without being overly abstracted. When your former colleague can debug your code without pulling an all-nighter, you’ve done something right.
What Being a Laravel Partner Actually Means
When Laravel launched its partner program, Dan jumped on board immediately. Why? Because he’d seen too many clients pick development teams based solely on price, only to end up with missed deadlines and terrible code. The partner program creates that first level of trust—a signal that says “these teams know what they’re doing.” Beyond the badge, it means direct communication with the Laravel core team, event sponsorship opportunities, and a level of credibility that genuinely helps the business.
The 4 PM Clock-Off That Actually Happens
Dan’s been there—working weekends, pulling all-nighters to meet deadlines at previous jobs. When he started Jump 24, he made a promise: no more of that. Sure, they have some clients with SLAs requiring evening support (and team members are properly paid for that), but the general rule is simple: clock off at 4 or 5, and actually be done. No emergency debugging sessions. No weekend work to catch up on sold features that were never properly scoped. It turns out when you don’t overcomplicate your code and you communicate well with clients, you don’t need to live at your desk.
The Content Creation Gap
Scroll through Twitch looking for PHP streams and you’ll struggle. Hunt for Laravel content on TikTok and you’ll find… not much. Meanwhile, JavaScript, Python, and Java developers are everywhere—live streaming, posting short-form content, racking up tens of thousands of views. Dan points out the uncomfortable truth: where are the PHP people? Sure, Nuno Maduro is doing incredible work (though he may not sleep), and resources like Laracasts and Laravel Daily are fantastic, but it can’t all fall on a handful of people. The PHP community needs more voices, more content, more people willing to make mistakes on stream rather than hiding behind perfectly polished videos.
PHP Architect Social Media:
X: https://x.com/phparch
Mastodon: https://phparch.social/@phparch
Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/phparch.com
Discord: https://discord.phparch.com
Subscribe to our magazine: https://www.phparch.com/subscribe/
Streams:
Partner
This podcast is made a little better thanks to our partners
Displace
Infrastructure Management, Simplified
Automate Kubernetes deployments across any cloud provider or bare metal with a single command. Deploy, manage, and scale your infrastructure with ease.
https://displace.tech/
PHPScore
Put Your Technical Debt on Autopay with PHPScore
Honeybadger.io
Honeybadger helps you deploy with confidence and be your team’s DevOps hero by combining error, uptime, and performance monitoring in one simple platform. Check it out at honeybadger.io
Music Provided by Epidemic Sound
Listen
Podcast (episodes): Play in new window | Download | Subscribe
Transcript
[00:00:15] Hello and welcome to Peach P Alive and Kicking brought to you by PHP architect and our partners at PHP School, more about them later this is the podcast that explores the latest developments in PHP and what it’s like to earn a living in the PHP today. Hi 1 of your hosts Mike Paige I’m a developer at at PHP architect and my co-host is a longtime contributor to our magazine and now a team member Chris Miller. Hey blank how you doing um it’s good so I’m still suffering from a cold so I’m I’m I’m struggling a little bit but we’ll get through this uh today’s episode is pre-recorded, but you can always head over to our Discord, and joining any of our conversations that go on there people are hanging out there all week if you’re watching this going live out on YouTube then you can ask questions myself and Chris and more more like most likely I should say being Discord to answer any questions that you have.
[00:01:14] While you’re over at YouTube please subscribe to the channel you can also see the rest of the content from the rest of the team with other podcasts and videos there uh we have a magazine as I just mentioned and we have a discount for our lovely listeners and Watchers live 3 will give you the first 3 months free of a digital subscription. I think you have to sign up to a yearly description a subscription I’m getting on my work can’t get my words out now we also have a conference PHP Tech, which we have next year to 20 2026 ah this is going really well today, and that is so for in Chicago it would be great to see you see as many people over there as as possible it would be great to see you there we also have our swag store. Well you can pick up some T-shirts caps hats hoodies you name it it’s it’s in it’s in our swag store so do head over there and take a look at what you can get a hold of,
[00:02:18] okay that’s all the housekeeping, done now I believe so Chris without a due would you like to introduce our guests for today yeah so with us today we have Dan noon’s and 1 of the original Founders and now long-standing developer at Jump 24. Hey Dan how you doing hi Chris I like how you doing thanks thanks for having me on the podcast today. No you’re welcome its it’s been interesting to see that you’ve actually been following along because we’ve seen your shares on the PHP top 10 which, we we love that it is brilliant to see thanks yeah 1 day we’ll get the gold yeah who knows surely it’s got to be this episode yeah if it’s not this 1 I want to know why um so Dan you will know what our first question is how did you get into PHP. So that’s a good question I mean I’ve been programming since I was in secondary school, I can’t you know I can’t remember doing some Visual Basic stuff like I remember building a cinema booking system in Visual Basic it was a task we had to do,
[00:03:26] but really it was University that’s when I kind of started to look at more of the web-based stuff so I remember kind of looking at HTML there’s tables back then no CSS so lots of style tags things like that and a very old version of PHP and really it just kind of LED from there from University really. Yeah so you’re you’re the more stereotypical of involved in programming from a younger age and got into it from there. So yeah. 1 of the things that I’ve picked up on in the way that you talk about to PHP particularly just lately is you talk of laravel in your language. Um which I love that phrase for the people watching listening do you want to explain what that means for for jump 24. Uh yeah so when I started the company I mean I I worked at several of the agencies using PHP other Frameworks and 1 thing that I noticed was that, when we were talking to clients or when we were you know starting writing code and things like that.
[00:04:33] There was this real disjoint between what was being talked through to the client and then kind of brought back to us so almost like the sales people didn’t really have an understanding of things you know like they just sell sell sell and then we would end up as a developer we would end up being the ones who would be kind of working those late nights trying to get things done and. You know there was lots of times where they would sell something in and and they would get it like describe it wrong or they would kind of lead the client down the wrong path and then when it came to kind of. We finished and showed to the client it was completely wrong so 1 thing that we do really well at Jump is that. We’re able to talk in in in the client’s language so you know we. We get to know the client as we’re kind of on boarding those initial calls things like that we get to understand them and then we’re we’re able to kind of translate those things that you know those technical things that could be really difficult to understand things that we understand as developers but when you try and you know talk to someone who has no.
[00:05:28] Technical understanding you know development knowledge and things like that they can get really you know lost and bogged down so we you know we’ve kind of managed to find a nice way to be able to translate these technical terms these technical things into a client, speaking language and and it really works like you know we have far less problems where you know we finished a project that we finished a thing and and it’s completely not a speck or not what the client expected because, you know we we we’ve got a good way of briefing them in explaining to them what it is but also it’s the way that we talk about laravel the way that we use it you know it’s a, I mean it’s mentioned over and over how you know it’s like this artisul thing you know it’s Artisans things like that so we have this this K and this kind of. Really deep understanding of the framework that that means we’re able to do things in a nice ways like that are really easy to understand like you know we we don’t over.
[00:06:24] Complicate things you know like you can you can go and look at some code that someone’s written and you’ll be like why have you done that like to this level of degree where you end up having to edit like 15 files to make a simple change or something like that you know we know where the balance is. And that’s really kind of grown you know that’s kind of 1 of the kind of core bases of the of the team yeah and. As many will know listening to this I actually worked with you a couple of times from points and 1 of the things that I really appreciated when I was there was the fact that code that we’d written it was just so easy to understand where everything was work through it it made debugging faster for starters and. There wasn’t many occasions where I was debugging something at 2 a.m. it’s certainly something I’ve um again when I you know I started the business I’d done. Stuff like that a previous jobs where you know had to work weekends to get things done and I really didn’t want that while I was running jumps so you know I I.
[00:07:27] At the top of my head like we have some clients that we have like a you know an SLA where we have to you know if something goes wrong in the evening we have to do something for them but obviously you know the the the team member who works on that is obviously you know paid for that. I try to make sure that we don’t you know you clock off at 4 or 5 whatever you know whatever you you finish time is and you don’t have to worry about anything else. Yeah and and of course offering support to people is a different kettle of fish to have a to go and debug something complicated just because you’re falling behind and. I think another aspect with jump that I really like is the fact that you’re actually a long established laravel partner so what does that mean for jump how does that help the business. So the partner program when when I first saw it I really wanted to get on board like I thought it was a really nice way for.
[00:08:20] Laral to have a you know a kind of accredited set of development teams you know we’ve all you know we’ve all seen clients who have gone and basically picked a development team based on price or something like that and things have gone wrong you know like everything’s you know falling apart the deadlines have been missed the code isn’t great so when laravel released his partner program, it kind of felt like it was almost like that first level of like these are good you know these are recommended teams that you should work with so we we kind of got on board as soon as we could. And it’s been really good for kind of promotion of the team obviously you know being a partner we get kind of the advertising on the website and things like that but also you know when we go to events we can sponsor those events it gives us a bit more of that promotion that we want it also gives us a really good. A communication Channel with the laravel core team.
[00:09:12] So you know we we have like a slack channel that we can talk to people at and also you know we have contacts like with you know people like James Joe things like that in the UK we you know we we chat to them a lot so it’s been really good to help us kind of get to know the the larval core team obviously over the last year is who that’s grown massively so so there’s so many members of the week you know we don’t know you know, last LaRon EU that went to a kind of met so many new new developers they’ve got and of course that’s grown even more since then so yes really helped us like get you know win more work because obviously you know they can go and see us on the partners program kind of gives them that kind of okay these guys know what they’re doing they wouldn’t be there you know if we were not good not a good team it also you know helps us kind of have something to talk about again and yeah like I mentioned you know the kind of,
[00:10:01] the the conversational pieces we can have with the laravel team is is really good as well yeah and. I’ve seen that you’ve had few team members talk to PHP Stoke which is run by James and um I’ve forgotten the other guy’s name but there’s a pair of them that run that and that’s 1 of those meetups where. You you almost get a bonus of the fact that it’s run by somebody from laravel but it’s nothing to do with the fact that he’s a laravel core team member and I love that. Yeah I understand it’s a great Meetup as well you know James does such a good job of getting really good speakers he’s in a really nice place and you know they do some really nice things like the food you know obviously like the older pizzas and stuff like that anything that’s left over at the end of the night they give it to the to the the homeless so there’s like a a charity down the road so anything that you know doesn’t just go in the bin,
[00:10:47] you know he’s thought about like well let’s do something with this so they give that 2 of the charity and then they obviously give it to the homeless that evening and like you said as he’s a a laravel Corps member. He’s got you know he he knows a lot of really good speakers so he’s able to get those people in yeah. So you talked about sponsoring events and meetups and that’s something that I’m I’m regularly seeing you know sponsored by jump 24 and seeing you’re going off to the next meet up to have a stall there or speak their, and that’s something that not a lot of companies do. Because obviously it eats time so what what’s the playoff between time spent doing that and the the benefit of doing that. So I mean obviously there’s there’s like 2 there’s multiple ways to look at this like the business angle is it’s really good for me meeting people like you know. The first laracon EU we went to was in Portugal it was I think 3 or 4 years ago I think it was and it was my first real introduction to a lot of these people meeting them face to face and
[00:11:51] we still get work you know people still come to us now there was something a couple of weeks ago where we got a you know someone got in touch to say hey I saw you were the lar on EU and I’d love to talk to you about this project like can can you help out so like the business side of things, this really beneficial for us you know obviously their long term like you know you can’t think I’m going to go to this event tomorrow and I’m going to get some work from it you’ve got to kind of you got to kind of go into it knowing that, you know it could be a year before you get anything from that but obviously the more you go to more events the more you you’re seeing the better it is but for like a personal point of view for me like. 1 of the things that really like when I moved to Birmingham before I before I started jumped I worked for another company called higs design and. 1 really like I got that job because of meetups because I was going to like multipack which was a big Meetup back back in the day here it was like um had a lot of you know like.
[00:12:46] People who went to that event now like you you look at them they’re actually well known people in the industry but it was a really good meeting place and uh you know I really enjoy going to that it was kind of open like it was lots of different stuff like lots of different talks it wasn’t like primarily on 1 language like s i remember Simon ham did a a talk on Big Data way way back you know like and it kind of put that foundation in me that like meetups are really important like before that meet up I hadn’t like I hadn’t been to anything because wherever I’ve been before that they didn’t didn’t run them that you know there was nothing like that so it was really important for me to like well if for there’s things that we can help promote or sponsor then to keep them running then let’s do that so obviously you know Stoke PHP we sponsor that a few times is walks Dev which we are sponsoring as well you know getting that going
[00:13:34] you know kind of helping with that from PHP you know we we run that it’s been on a bit of a Hiatus at the moment but obviously you know next year we’re going to be starting that back up and then of course we got, Laura London which is another 1 we’re working with Pete from steadfast and Susanna from larabell so that’s starting back now next month and then hopefully I’m going to continue that then every every other month we’re going to be starting talks down in London so yeah I feel like the meetups like is a really important thing to help grow like you know you might have Junior developers who don’t know many people in the industry and it’s a really good place for them to come meet people learn. That’s 1 Thing multi pack did really well back in the day like they did show and tells which were really nice like introductions into things which and you know people could go you can go along and you didn’t feel afraid or nervous about going to the meter
[00:14:23] like you know it was such a nice atmosphere everyone was there it was really nice people and I found like the laravel community, feels the same you know like you go to an event you go to like a laravel based me up, everyone’s really nice like you know there’s no kind of like nastiness so you know that that I’ve seen everyone’s kind of looks out for each other and really they’re like, looking there to learn you know what I mean like people to go to these things to try and you know you know it’s kind of expanding knowledge so for me meetups like super important so the more like I can help or we can help as a company like if we can do something even it’s you know sponsor an event or you know maybe we can like you said. Like a couple of speakers who might want to go great go along like anything like that that can help like we’re all for that. Yeah and I think from both of our stories that’s been something that’s been important along the route that.
[00:15:15] For for me working at PHP the architect has come from going to a PHP conference meeting the people that run it. And then being in the position that I needed work they already knew me they knew of me they knew what I could do because I’d spoken at. At their conference which then put me in the position of being employed and. A lot of people sort of undervalue the idea of developers being in a room together because I mean this this is the old stereotype of developers sit in the corner and never talk to each other I haven’t actually met a developer like that, most of the developers I’ve met are people that, more than willing to talk to you and might it might take a little bit of help to get started in a conversation kind of thing because I know where Mike’s going in a moment. But it it is something that is massively undervalued the the power of just meeting with people I I’d also extend that to online.
[00:16:14] Yeah as well not just in person I I I’m an artist architect because I spent a lot of time in their Discord Channel talking to people so they knew who I was when I knew they needed work because I was made redundant. I I I was just lucky that they had an opening at the time asked me to interview and while the rest of his history I’m now now with them so it’s not just the person stuff it’s online as well I would I’d extend that to yeah and I’d actually it’s interesting because I’ve had this conversation with another, young developer who is in the car world. Who is trying to look for his next move excuse me sorry and he was his advice was get a portfolio together. I have not got a portfolio. I’ve never had time to actually build myself a portfolio and and I’m employed and I’ve moved I’ve had a couple of jobs so. I would personally say hang on no get into the Community First and this is what I’ve said to this young man I said get into the communities that where developers in,
[00:17:23] or companies or people that work in the areas that you want to work and get into those areas and start just talking I mean for me with uh, HP architect you started in the pitch be ugly Discord I started listening to their uh their the podcast which is now morphed into the PHP architects in in more recent years but I was talking about Chess and giving people chess lessons. I wasn’t talking about coding I I I was like Eric and John I’ve I’ve played chess with him give him some tips and things and some lessons and interests I started up the the pitch be ugly chess club on chess.com we we’re no longer using now but and we started some some internal sort of, competitions and that’s how they got to know me it wasn’t just through coding I went in with something else that I knew and have quite a bit of knowledge about and started talking about so it’s not always having to be talking about. Coding all the time it can be any it can be.
[00:18:24] Can be something else just to get yourself known people know who you are people start to see you in the chat and then and again they’re moving into in person people start to see your face know who you are know your voice. I know those sorts of things and so. I would yeah I would highly recommend that over spending hours locked away in the room building a a portfolio. If you’re in the community and people know you then build the work then build the I would say all right 1 1 of the problems I have with the concept of build a portfolio. Is most of the time. The code that I’m writing is behind an NDA non-disclosure agreement so how am I supposed to put that in a portfolio when I can’t show them the Code behind the thing that’s in, yeah I had exactly that issue when I when I was made redundant in February of last year I’m not looking at I’ve actually got no code to share. Because I haven’t had time to work on anything personal I because I’ve been working and then you’ve got life that you’ve got kids you’ve got your own
[00:19:28] activities outside well I haven’t got time to see it hours on end writing a to-do list application to prove that I can write a to-do list application I haven’t got time to sit there doing all those sorts of those sorts of generic, my ideas so being in the community and having people know who you are just by. Looking at your avatar or your name for it online or seeing your your face at meetups or conferences, is more valuable I’d say 100% yeah I mean I I don’t have a have I go to my GitHub I probably have got nothing that’s like. That I could show people part you know because all in private repos might be 1 or 2 things but like I said it’s being seen at these you know these things like I said online great like to you know it’s another safe space to go and talk to people. And then you know obviously like leads to go into events and stuff like that that’s you know that massively helps so like 100% I mean like I said that’s how I got my my gig at Hicks design
[00:20:26] because I went to these meetups you know I spoke to Andy Andy didn’t really see any code from me before the interviews well I can’t even think I don’t even think I gave him any codes during that time but you know it was, you know the chats that we had things that he could see the passion the enthusiasm and kind of it went from there yeah I think I think personality plays a much bigger role. In in this especially when um you you kind of you need to know that the new person will fit in with the existing team, and I think I think most of my certainly my first, devro I had no code to show the person he didn’t do any coding tests, he asked me a few questions and the rest of it was all all off of personality and it quite openly said to me after the well actually it was just before he offered me the the job he got me on the phone and said, I went through all the reasons why he shouldn’t hire me and 1 of them was lack of experience he’s he’s he’s interviewed people with a lot more experience and I have.
[00:21:29] But it was the personality. This is the fact that he knew that I could fit in with the existing team that was already there and I did I was there for quite some time until the work dried up for me and he couldn’t keep me on which is. No thought with anyone’s it’s just the way the the market went for him so. Is another so I think personality get yourself across get people to know you in some way shape or form, you you don’t know someone’s personalities by reading someone’s code. And if they’re not great at coding then you’ve got the opportunity to mold them have a more senior developer work with them. To shake them into the developer you you want. You can teach somebody the technical skills and as long as there’s a basic aptitude there for understanding how to break something down and they’re the sort of person that fits the team you have. You have somebody you can work with. And it’s it’s interesting actually thinking back when I was at to jump 24 working with Alex and the amount of time that he put into teaching me Concepts that I had no idea about.
[00:22:43] That he would literally take me through step by step. And explain how it worked but the next time I came up against that I could do it myself because Alex had took the time to show me and that that mentorship is what makes part of a team work as well as it does and. We’ve we’ve had the conversation on here before about juniors in PHP and I’m really struggling to see Junior roles which is quite interesting.
[00:23:19] And we haven’t we haven’t specifically put like a bracket like it’s a junior mid we’ve just we’ve just put a salary range and we’ve just seen you know who wants to play and we’ve had like varying degrees of of you know levels like we’ve had people who are new to you know just finished college or uni apply in and then we’ve had you know people who’ve got loads and loads of experience and it’s been interesting like. Just chatting to them first like the first kind of thing we do is have a chat with them see if they you know culturally fit like like you’re talking about them like if they would you know fit in the team and. Yeah you look out there there isn’t like there isn’t much that I can see that like junior level. And it like I know this this question has been going around on Twitter over the last couple of days as well like. Why are we not seeing these roles why are we not why are we seeing everything like JavaScript or why are we seeing everything in node or Python and things like that why are we not seeing
[00:24:12] these positions in PHP why are we not seeing the kind of salary that you see in other all these other languages. And like how do we deal with that you know how can we fix that problem you know I it’s it’s a difficult 1 to solve it’s not something we can you know just there’s no Magic Camera that’s going to just fix it, but you know there are varying things that we can do as business owners as you know as people who use the you know these Frameworks use these languages, you know people who go to meetups things like that there’s all ways to to to do this I saw something about rephrasing the way that we talk about PHP so everyone you know, this would this thing comes up a lot PHP is dead PHP is dead well stop saying PHP is dead let’s rephrase it let’s do something different like don’t you know cuz it’s it’s such a negative connotation straight away like why would people be interested in PHP if the first thing you say is PHP is dead,
[00:25:06] even though you change like in the article or the post or whatever you kind of counteract that if the headline is PHP is dead. People are not going to you know people are not going to be interested so. Yeah I mean it’s it’s an interesting thing like how do we fix that problem like it’s just you know most of the boot camps I see they teach JavaScript. I mean Chris knows he you know he’s been at he worked at 1 you know he went through 1 you know javascript’s the big thing that they teach and I can understand why like it you know front end back end I understand but like. I think 1 of the problems we had in especially in in the West Midlands was there was way too many graduates all of JavaScript and there just wasn’t the jobs then you know there’s loads of people, who would come out with these boot camps the new JavaScript the new react and there was no you know there wasn’t the the number of jobs needed for them for the you know what people that had come through.
[00:25:59] Yeah and I think that’s something that school of code had the right way around yes they use JavaScript as the tool but they taught the fundamentals of programming, so I if you can write a function you can Google the syntax and how to do it in any language if you can write a loop you can do that, mhm but like teaching that fundamentals a lot of people are missing the fact that you can switch languages quite easily now you might not have the experience of the Frameworks and everything else but you can understand what’s going on and quickly learn. And that that’s how I’ve ended up working in to date 19 different languages. Right yeah yeah I mean I I I just have to agree with all that I think these boot camps are slightly getting it wrong. I’m currently studying computer science degree through the open University and yes we play with JavaScript we play a bit of PHP I’ve done a bit of python I’ve been done a bit of java
[00:27:00] but they’re all just picking those languages and you I I don’t have any. Grass of great knowledge of these languages what they’re actually teaching you is a concept so um Java was to teach of orientated programming. I don’t know why they picked those particular language to teach it but that it’s more about the concept and Chris said there are fundamentals I mean you you could literally go down to this try to remember what it’s called is it scratch. The program that they take they normally use in like primary schools to teach kids decision making and computer programming, I mean you could you could teach someone how to write a program with that because it’s all it’s just drag and drop blocks from the for all the different Loops different time and that’s where you really need to know is Chris you can then work out how to do the syntax in, in any language it’s more about learning how to tell the computer what you want it to do and breaking down those.
[00:27:59] Problems into the smallest sections to be able to write that code 1 line by line. That’s what people should be taught not how to write in the language because yes you’re writing learning a language. But sometimes those bits get missed and people will then think well I only I did a boot camp for JavaScript I don’t know how to write anything in PHP but when you then explain to them it’s it’s exactly the same you just need to learn the different syntax. Yeah that’s that’s the that’s it really yeah and so many people in this the power of understanding how to program. And that that ability to shift between languages makes you. Exceedingly valuable but it also makes it so easy for you to look at code and just understand it even if it’s in a framework a pattern that you don’t understand. You can break it down you can work out what’s going on and yes of course you’re going to sit there and pull your hair out I mean that’s fairly obvious from the state of mind and you can you can look at how something is going and you can get annoyed with it.
[00:29:09] But at least you can understand it and you can get to the other end and work out what happened and then you can change it to something that you happen to like and. That’s kind of the core of choices in code style it’s. The thing that you happen to like there’s there’s no real difference between writing something functionally and object-oriented. They can both do the same thing it’s just that you happen to prefer 1 over the other. Yeah well on on that note we’re going to scoot over just to hear from our partners and we’ll be right back in a second.
[00:29:44] Thank you to our partners at php.com. Every app builds up technical debt over time it’s the price we pay for shipping new features and moving fast when we build up too much of it though it can start to impact how we work team velocity suffers bugs become more frequent and take longer to fix, and everyone starts to get a little frustrated the key to managing debt is to measure it, a credit score can help you understand how well your managing your financial debt and now there’s a credit score for your technical debt, go to phpcs to get a free technical debt score and monitoring for all of your PHP applications today. Thank you PHP School so. Done we were talking just before that advert around the idea of sort of coal quality code style and that there’s a subtle clue online that that may be something that you appreciate a bit, good pretty much every post on LinkedIn do you want to tell me more about what code quality means in um in Jump 24 and what that looks like.
[00:30:49] Yeah it’s like super important to me I’ve like I said before job 24 I worked at. Several different agencies that had different ways to write code different developers would do different things table spaces you know like all these little things that we used to argue about before, and you know someone would you know the way they write their Loops or do this that and the other again it all works it does all work done wrong everything’s you know everything works but you go and look at a piece of code someone’s 1 piece of code someone’s written and then you go and look at someone else’s piece of code and. Just completely like you know everything just looks different and things like that so, I thought when I started the business like 1 thing I wanted to be liked is that I want someone you know if someone starts new someone who’s never worked on a project before if they jump into a project that we’ve written.
[00:31:37] They would understand it like they could you know they’d know where to go for the code like where okay well you say you know the action pattern right now is is Big so where where do our actions live we all you know they always live in the same place in our in our codebases so like we know, that’s where I got to go to do that where I got to you know where I’ve got to put my actions so it became really important to me that like first of the thing we did was standardized everything so you know, we looked around at various tools that are on at the time like the different you know the different PSR standards that were out of things like that we found a really cool tool called easy coding standards so it’s built by Thomas who is part of the Rector team. Erect the PHP which is another tool that helps you kind of you know upgrade your PHP code things like it’s like another really good tool to to help you with things like this.
[00:32:26] The great thing about like easy coding standards was. We could pick and choose the bits that we wanted so like the bits of the standards that we wanted but we could also easily write our own so you know we’ve got like Alex has written custom things for like, all our classes should be final you know like the all these little things that we you know we wanted to do to make sure people did we’ve we’ve written like custom sniffs to do that and then we obviously run them on the pipeline we run them locally things like that and, you know from from you know not having those things in place to getting those things in place. All of a sudden your code lines up like everything’s really nice you can go into a project oh that’s looks exactly the same as that I know where that is so people find on boarding these projects a lot easier, you know so they can they get up to speed quicker they you know the developing and producing code the same way that the whole team would and.
[00:33:19] The great thing again like I said before is you know how many times have you looked at a bit of code or gone okay I want to write this code how do I do it like or you know and you like you can waste hours just thinking about how you’re going to write this code well if you’ve got a certain set of standards in place that say okay we should do this so we should use collections all the time don’t use arrays you know use a collection and then do the things with the collection because it’s obviously better for typing did things like that so we you know it makes. Your job easier because you’re not having to worry about like have I done that right have I done this wrong like there’s already these like kind of set standards in place for how we should be writing our code. And also then like the big Winners it helps massively with bugs right like if you’ve got a bunch of things in place like you’ve got your standard set you you know you’re enforcing type so like everything’s you know like strongly typed
[00:34:04] things like that those issues that you had you know before all of you know back in way back in php4 you know these things that would crop up. They’re not there anymore like so we can release code you know we’re we’re a lot more confident in the code that we’re doing like the clients a lot more confident with what we’re releasing because we know that you know having these strong types having these standards in place and the tests so like which is again another super important thing for us having these testing place mean that, when we do release something there’s loads of kind of stuff there behind the scenes that we know that we’ve done to make sure that thing is going to be is going to work. Yeah and none of that means you don’t get bugs because it happens with human we make mistakes but it all helps to minimize the amount you do get and when you do get 1 it’s a heck of a lot easier to find it.
[00:34:53] And I mean let’s be honest most of the books that developers get once they’ve got strong standards in place so they missed an edge case or there’s some quirky little thing where. PHP underneath the hood has got some complicated thing going on like 0.14 0.2 isn’t in fact 0.3, or or you know a classic API change without knowing letting you know it doesn’t work like what’s happened here or they’ve changed the way that the response has returned so yeah I’ve got to do about it or just completely changing endpoint like I’ve had yeah why is this not working now I was at endpoint doesn’t exist anymore no it’s not there anymore oh but they put messages up on the endpoint to say. We’ve we’ve moved but no pre-warning thanks for that yeah and and then you get then you get integrating apis and of course third parties always do apis right and there’s never a problem with third party apis yeah we we had a long conversation about that on on so today’s a Wednesday so we had a live show last night and we had quite a long conversation about,
[00:36:00] API yep I think we’ve talked about API quite a bit on the shows because it’s just 1 of those bug bears, mm though the 1 all the third party apis you want to consume seem to be developed by people that have completely different, opinions on how an API should work yeah even with some of the fundamental stuff. Yeah the is already out there and set in stone this is how it should work for example error codes but they don’t follow them. Mhm or just invent new ones yes yes yes invent new ones and, yeah so well we could we could spend another hour talking about apis but maybe we shouldn’t on this episode know I think we get Steve back for that 1 yes yes. So 1 thing that you mentioned earlier on was laravel London which is now a thing which is awesome do you want to tell us more about that because we’re going to make sure this goes live before the first 1, uh yeah so Lara London’s like been going for a long time it was run by jonty who who runs Lara live UK.
[00:37:16] It’s been on a bit of a a pause and he did do a shout out to see if anyone who wanted to take it over so myself and Pete and Susanna. We kind of stepped up to to start that now London’s got a massive obviously a massive development scene and there’s lots of laravel developers in London we already know this um but obviously there’s not a kind of you know a good Meetup that goes on like I think the Meetup group for it at the moment is about 800 people that are you know part of of the of the group so yeah so we’re going to start putting it on again but like it’s it’s typical Meetup style so the first 1 we’re going to do is just going to be you know meet and greet. 50 people just chat then get you know kind of find out what people want in the next event like what you know what would you like to see and then like I said every every other month then we’re going to do an event with some talks. I’m having some speakers in again what’s great about London is
[00:38:11] like you know there’s a couple of laravel people who are close by that we could bring in to talk but there’s also good access routes you know to come in so it does open things up like to get people there obviously you know you know I’m in Birmingham so you know it’s a couple of hours travel for me but it is a good location and there is a lot of people there so you know there is a benefit of having, 1 thing like we want to try and do obviously we you know we’re working with larabell right now to try and basically 1 of the big problems we’ve got right now is. The beat up like everyone who’s described at the moment we’ve got 1 female developer who’s who’s like turning up. And we want to make that change we want to change that like how do we go about changing that you know it’s something that we you know we’re struggling with like in an industry like you know. Uh you see it every day you know like there’s there’s way more male developers and female so we’re trying to you know trying to make sure that it’s a safe space you know like they they we don’t want them to feel like they they can’t,
[00:39:05] you know they can’t come because it’s not safe and you know we’re going to make sure that you know like they listened to so if you know things happen that you know shouldn’t be happening you know we deal with them so like you know, and really like trying to trying to bring more of them in like that that’s that you know we want to see you know laravel has been growing year on year like you go and look at any laracon event you know they always get on stage to take a photo and I remember I think. The first Lerona you I went to there was I mean maybe 10 or 12 or something like that I can’t you know it wasn’t a master number and you look at Lara life UK the last year’s 1 and the stage was like you know you know it was full and then I think at the US 1 that you know again like massive amount of people there so it’s great to see that but like it kind of you know how can we do more to to to fix the problem you know we know it’s a difficult 1 to fix but like.
[00:39:59] You know is something when you got to think about and that’s actually something that when we had a conversation on this podcast with, % Susanna we were we were talking at some some extent about that and 1 of the things that we also looked at was the fact that it’s not just females it’s anybody who isn’t male. Somebody who doesn’t identify as male is going to have a much harder job finding themselves comfortable and feeling like they should be there. Than somebody who identifies as male and just by the fact that it’s a room full of people who identify as male. Is a general rule and anything that we do that can change that is incredible I mean if you look at the top of the chain. The PHP Foundation it’s a pretty even split between male and female which that’s incredible, we need that to start trickling down and even at laravel it’s starting to change in the core team that you’re seeing more females there and that’s not any deliberate action on their part It’s Just Happening naturally and.
[00:41:03] The fact that it’s even something that is needed is. It kind of kind of almost a worry for me that it’s even something that we should have to think about. Yeah yeah it’s a it’s a different 1 so it’s it is a shame that we have to think about it but my. Hope is that 101520 years down the line we don’t think about it anymore because it’s so ingrained in. In our culture and this is it it’s a it’s a culture change that we we’re having to make sure and I I feel for anyone out there that doesn’t feel safe. Whatever. And what they identify as or or what their sexuality anyone at all that doesn’t feel safe in this space is is it’s not right and it it’s all right for the 3 of us to say. That’s that’s not right because we’re I mean I I I experienced that sort of anxiety in a different way just because I have social anxieties but it’s not I I can’t pretend to imagine what it’s like for for people that don’t identify as male or or have a different sexuality to myself so it’s.
[00:42:19] It’s hard for me to put them in put myself in those situations or those thoughts but I I just wish we didn’t have to think about it and and everyone is just safe because, 1 thing I I’ve I’ve like in all walks of life in any any sort of activities I’m involved in is that that everyone and anyone is. Welcomed in however so perform they want to be in or they shouldn’t be. Any of this feeling uncomfortable at all but unfortunately it’s so as as Chris said we we we we’ve got to work to make sure that that doesn’t happen anymore yeah in the future and that’s education that’s, just just open your arms to everyone and saying you’re all everyone everyone is welcome everyone is safe. And but making sure I think the the really interesting thing is popped into my I cannot remember if we talked about this with Susan I know the episode. Came out recently I think. As the time of recording it was only last week it came out but we actually recorded it quite a while ago so I’m trying to remember everything we said I personally was on holiday so I didn’t re-watch the episode when it went live but.
[00:43:31] They they there is a another big big Community I’m involved in is a chess world and all over the world there is New Movement to try and make female chess players feel more comfortable. At tournaments there has been a horrendous stories of harassment and all sorts from from mouth mouth applies to on to female players and there is now an organization that is building up a network of people. That are associated and they can be mailed they can be female they can be whatever, and they’ll be like a go-to person at every tournament that’s the goal every tournament there is a go-to person for them for anyone to go to and speak to if they feel uncomfortable about anything. And I don’t know if we talked about that with Suzanne or if that’s but that would be an interesting concept to consider having representative of. The laravel I keep having to stop myself calling the Lara Bellas I don’t know where that’s come from I’m sorry larabel a representative of larabel at every Meetup every.
[00:44:43] Conference that could be just someone to go to and speak to if there’s something more I mean we as a company PHP architect we’re really strict with our code of conducts yeah. Luckily I I as far as I’m aware which on and Eric have only ever have to have to act on it once. The 2 years I’ve been there so this year and last year there were no incidences and we when I look at the people that attend Tech it is a very diverse. Set of people from different backgrounds again different genders and things so I think that. There is hope I think there is hope and it’s it starts with the organizers and I’m not I’m not I’m not accusing any organizers of not doing this but starts with the organizers to make it completely and nutty. Honest that anything that goes on that is not right you’re gone that’s it. Doesn’t matter who you are you’re out of the door and and then enforce it. We’ve got to back it up and enforce it but then I also know there are people that might feel.
[00:45:54] Difficult to report an incident and they don’t want to but you should this is my message you should and maybe having like a representative. Any of these meetups that could just closed doors just disappear have a little chat. Doesn’t even have to be on the night it could be afterwards just just just my thought that’s just popped into my head while we were just talking and I can’t remember if my daughter s Susana about it but that is something that’s going on in the chest world and anyone can sign up to be part I can’t remember the organization’s name I’d have to Google it again anyone can sign up to be a representative and then be present at a tournament for anyone to go to if they’ve got any problems. They want to talk to some so just a thought rambled on about that a bit long now it’s definitely an interesting concept to look at and something that wouldn’t be that complicated to start doing.
[00:46:50] It makes me think I’ve forgotten to mention it when I was talking to Suzanne because I’m sure that must have popped in my head when we recorded that episode and I I’ll try and reach out to her and and chat to her about it it’s just something that’s going on in other worlds I know and, whether it I think it’s helping I I can’t say for sure. But I I think I wonder whether that would be something that would make other people so anyone that doesn’t identify as male feel more comfortable to go to these places because they know there’s someone there that they can just. This is I’m not don’t feel comfortable because of this and then it’s those organizations organizers then have to act on what’s going on they can’t just brush under the carpet there was a big, I’m going to refer back to chess again because it’s probably the other big Community I’m part of there was a big thing in the US of a a grand Grandmaster who was accused by numerous females of,
[00:47:47] some sort of sexual harassment and it was brushed under the carpet until someone went public. 1 of the someone went public and said and then it all then got dealt with. Whether it was dealt with correctly I don’t know but now that the stigma is that it just got brushed under the carpet people ignored it it wasn’t investigated it wasn’t dealt with. And that’s something that this just not right so if something is reported as so that the organizers need to act and enforce whatever their code of conducts are. With that I’m hoping my my I really do hope that that then makes it feel more comfortable for for people to join these and we can start getting that diversity because it is out there. There are there are plenty of of. Females and people that don’t identify as males developers out there we know we know they are out there. If you want to we want to embrace him and bring him into into the fold and.
[00:48:47] And let them yeah enjoy enjoy these events yeah and. Difficult to put yourself in the mindset of somebody who thinks the opposite of what we do. Because I’ve seen that in some circles where people have gone well no this this isn’t a woman’s job and it’s. What are you talking about then my my my answer to that is there’s a dog get lost yeah you’re not the person to be here. Otherwise that is not it’s going back to getting employed about your personality and your things like that if you don’t fit then by that might that might be harsh but I think. I’m hoping that that’s the majority the majority of people that think that way. Uh these days so by saying know that you’re not part of this. You need to leave that will open up the doors for more people to to come mhm 20% yeah so. Done when is the first lar of London and how does somebody get a ticket that’s what we were talking about yeah if you if you head to laravel London.
[00:49:58] That should uh redirect you to Luma and it’s the 22nd of November I’m correct yep still some spots available so yeah if uh if you can make it like you know if you know anyone who can get them sign up. You know there’s some free drinks and you get to chat to other lovely laravel developers and then hopefully like I said you know in 2 months time then. Will be I’ll be running with talks mhm I’d like I did look and I’d love to get down there but I don’t I’ve got a funny feeling there’s something else going on on that day I can’t remember what it is I need to look at it again. See I kind of want to go but I’m not sure if Eric would let me go a week after I’ve done another talk at another place well I might ask, is it is it a day thing or is it in the evening it’s in the evening it’s 6:09. Which is really helpful right in the middle of my workday well you can shift you sure you can shift your work 1 day.
[00:51:01] Yeah so for for us working for American team we we, well I I don’t do as many later days as you do Chris I do a couple of later days to to have that overlap but the rest of them are sort of more UK normal, working hours I mean I I do half of my day on UK normal hours I do 12 till 10.
[00:51:27] It’s it’s a fun shift it it works for it works for you but it does I I don’t know many developers that go yeah are willingly work 12 to 10 it’s yeah I don’t either. So 1 other question that I wanted to uh chat around was you’ve been posting the PHP top 10 for quite a while and that has grown into. Honestly want a heck of a resource and some of the things that I’ve seen posted there have been absolutely brilliant what do you reckon your favorite has been so far, good question is this way you know go and read all of them and no I mean they’re all in I have I’ve got them all in, documents in in non jira in Confluence so everything’s in confidence I’ve got it all and I think. They’ve been 2 really good ones they’re not really being massively around PHP. But again it goes back to the concepts again so there was 2 1 of them was to do with like. MySQL and data scale like looking at your queries and you know.
[00:52:32] Finding those performance fixes that you you can do you know even just by doing simple things like adding indexes or or thinking about how you’re writing those queries like looking at joins that are not necessarily as performance you know certain joints this way is better to do that or you know things like that that was a really interesting 1 because obviously they were dealing with massive sets of data like Geo, geocode I think it is something like they they do a couple of really good blogs like they have a lot of data that they deal with and they go into real good depth in good like in their blog posts of like how they deal with certain things there was 1. 2 weeks ago I think it was that was really really really interesting to read and then another 1 was csvs of all things you know passing like csvs with. Hundreds of thousands of rows of data now you know we’ve all written code that you know the user uploads a CSV or uploads an Excel spreadsheet and you know there’s there’s numerous laravel packages out there like laravel Excel and stuff like that you can use to to help you do this
[00:53:31] but like you know we’ve come up against problems before in the past where, you know like someone’s just uploaded a crazy Big File like more than you would you know understand and they’re wondering why it’s taking so long or you know the thing just, fails so like looking at that, like it’s a high level concept and and thinking about how you can you know do these things you know step away from a package use a native kind of inbuilt PHP stuff that you can use and like make that thing performance super performant like there was a really interesting 1 for me and like there’s been some other like loads of really interesting stuff you know week to week that that pop up like some really good like there’s some really good people doing some like awesome things right now in the space like like Nuno just is is smashing it with like the videos he does and the stuff you know he’s he’s putting out there Ashley like the AI stuff that he’s doing.
[00:54:24] I like the crazy things like the crazy things he did yesterday he did a SSH paint like you know the painting like like and everyone’s like how did you do that like that’s what I find really interesting about the top 10 stuff is like. I’m I’m finding things as I’m you know throughout the week that’s like well that’s really cool or you know that like that’s another interesting thing and they might not 100% be like PHP focused or laravel focused they might have like. Sometimes it’s Concepts that you can apply to your PHP code or your lateral code and like you know they’re just as interesting because like you said you know that’s how you’re going to improve your code. So yeah it’s uh it’s it’s it’s been fun putting them together. Yeah so so when’s the book that you’re going to put them all in so that we can that’s no no I don’t think I’ve got the time to put them all together I I I think we do need some sort of public repo of them though because that that would be a really useful resource
[00:55:21] well yeah so I started to we were thinking about putting them on the on on our website so like yeah as part of you know like a like a Blog so every week just put it out and I was going to, try and film the next 1 so like I was just going to do like a 10-minute video where I go and do a bit more detail, so like obviously the problem with like a LinkedIn post you have you only have so much text you can put in so maybe like a like an 8 to 10 minute video of me talking through them and then, that the post is normal as a as a way to kind of get a bit more not you know a bit more kind of thing out of them yeah that would be cool. Hm yeah that’d be good I actually really like that idea, I I would definitely be watching those first thing on a Friday morning it’s it’s kind of amusing to wake up on a Friday a guess where we’ve been that week.
[00:56:25] We know for a fact that some of the people that are watching after they’ve been broadcast are coming from the laravel top 10 because they’ve told us, so people are seeing it on your post yeah coming and seeing our resource and then telling us that they came from you which is its brilliant. I have I have had a few people message me on LinkedIn and at. Event I think it was Lara live UK the last 1 I think some someone came up to me in like said oh you know I I read them because been doing it for about a year and a half now 2 years I think it’s been going for. So yeah it’s it’s nice to hear that like you know people do actually yeah like read them and you know hopefully there’s some stuff in there that you know I can like dig out that like is interesting for people. Oh yeah well thank you for for putting us on there for a few the few weeks that you have and I think you can tell, how important is by the amount of reactions that you do get from those posts because they that’s that’s why my my LinkedIn blows up because I just get.
[00:57:27] Hundreds of all these people saying they’ve they’ve reacted to a post your mentioned in your reacted to a post you mentioned in your I mean every day I’m looking and I’ve got so many notifications and it’s so what’s going on. No no I mean if you keep you know like I said the the it’s the good content that you know there’s so much good content out there and like the video you know the the the the people you’ve been talking to like. It’s really interesting stuff so yeah keep keep knocking it out of the park. Yeah thank you very much for that I mean that’s what we’re trying to do and it could sort of circles around to something you were saying earlier and I think it’s possibly because you’ve watched some of. Of the episodes and I keep banging on about it it was about how we present PHP to the rest of the world and that’s where that’s where this podcast came from. Um it it came from me attending pitch Peak UK.
[00:58:18] I can’t remember it was like it was this year earlier this year sorry my my brain doesn’t work with time frames anymore earlier this year and seeing that there was the, Forum at the end where 1 of the questions was how do we attract new developers to PHP and the fact that Niels from Pakistan said about. Stop using PHP dead in your titles that’s where it will send from and it’s a a long conversation that we’ve had I mean me and Chris were talking about this podcast before he became a team member at architect so it was on the cards we’ve been talking about we’re planning it and and I’m I’m glad it’s getting that sort of. That sort of impacting people are thinking what we’re doing is interesting because we’re just trying to highlight some of the people that are in the world within the PHP highlights some of the the great stuff that’s happening within PHP because there is there’s lots of, awesome stuff coming out already out and it’s just growing.
[00:59:19] Every every single almost every single day it’s like every day I look at something that’s new come out that’s that looks really cool so I’m I’m I’m glad you think that we’re we’re doing. Quality content I suppose you wouldn’t have agreed to be on if you hit the thing we were doing something good but yeah no it’s it’s nice to hear and thank you very much for for adding this into those those lists and I think. Yeah you go back and have a look at those and see how many people are reacting to them it’s a really good resource. To just look over and go oh that looks interesting and yeah people are certainly sitting up and taking notice of those posts every Friday morning they also find it interesting that it’s not the same people reacting so it’s not like oh can your friends specifically are reacting to it it’s people that are related to the resources that you’re sharing that are reacting and yeah it’s just showing the reach that it’s got now is incredible.
[01:00:18] So we’re we’re getting close quite close to time now and I don’t want to be down for too long it’s taking us a while to get this date in the diary to uh so I know you’re a busy man. So you’ve watched quite a few of these episodes so you kind of know where we’re going now what’s the last question. Is what excites you about PHP at the moment what what is there out there or or is coming out to do with PHP that really excites you, right so. Like 8.5 has got some really cool things in it like a couple of couple of posts I put recently about some of the things that you know that are being released in there like like, native array first in the very last stuff like great you know we we’ve had that kind of thing in laravel for a bit but it’s always been you know their implementation of it but I think. I I think what excites me the most is and again this goes back to this conversation we’ve had throughout this is,
[01:01:12] they’re starting to think about how we can get these developers in like how we can bring the stuff in you know there’s a competition going on right now I think it actually might have just finished about like the you know the the design the 8.5 release page yeah and there’s been some really interesting designs like some like completely different designs than than the current website but I think that needs to be fed through like we need something new like we need you know that you look at like I think Nuna did this he reviewed some of the you know the other. Tools like python next.js all these kind of things and their websites will like really nice and they felt like if you were you know Junior Dev getting into it, you’d want to use that thing because it looks cool whereas you go and look at the PHP website and. I mean I don’t think it’s changed in 20 years I thought like I don’t know it’s it’s you know okay it serves as purpose but let’s do something different.
[01:02:03] It kind of needs that kind of it needs to change from that point up I mean I saw a post from someone actually maybe we should rename it like to something like, to make it sound cool for for like the next major release okay it’s still just PHP but like give it like a cool sounding name it might you know might bring people in I do think like the design stuff needs to change I saw a post from David who used to be the designer at laravel. And he’d gone and looked at like the the Twitter handles for like the major framework like the major languages and stuff like that and when the last posted you know on PHP hadn’t posted since like 2024. Like you know you’re looking at the social media presence you’re looking at all and this is all stuff that like. This generation that’s coming up now they all do like the Tik Tok Generation all these people they use these things more like I don’t like I’m not a massive you know I I’m not a massive like social media person I do what I need to do.
[01:02:56] For you know for jump 24 I do that but like apart from that I’m not huge but like these are all the things that they look at right the signals that they’ll look at to see like. Is this thing is this thing even alive do I do it and you know not having any posts for a year is kind of like hey you know let’s do something about that like like this it should be talking about itself like hey you know this new new releases coming up with these new features cool cool cool like start to get the ball rolling from the ground up and I understand it’s a lot of work like it is a lot of work right it’s an open source thing. But yeah like is this something that we can help out with as a as as the de you know as developers who use these languages like how can we help out like we got the PHP fig we’ve got all these other things that you know the PHP Foundation we’ve got these things that are are there to try and do the you know to try and.
[01:03:41] Push the language like but how can we also help out with with those kind of things. Yeah and it’s it’s interesting actually if you look at things like Tik Tok development stuff on Tik Tok really lands. It’s it’s getting ridiculous amounts of views just for short videos. And there’s there’s a guy on there who has been posting for quite some time and I’ve forgotten his username. He posts explanation videos. Of how to do something in given language so how to write a repository in JavaScript how to create a picture. Life and how to remove a background in Python that kind of thing and they’re like 3 4 minute videos but he’s getting 20 30 40 thousand views on each 1, yeah and the comment section isn’t people going you know I don’t understand this it’s, it’s reaching people that are new to development that go actually that’s a really cool idea yeah we like we need to think differently now like with the way we you know the way that.
[01:04:48] The weights have reached these people is changing like I I sometimes go on to Twitch to see like there’s a like a programming specific channels of people like live streaming programming and I dig through and try to find PHP ones and. I really struggle sometimes like there’s loads of JavaScript or there’s Java or there’s you know loads of these like python ones they’re doing like the writing python but like, I really struggle to find like PHP based ones I understand okay you know some people don’t want to stand sit there and like live stream and coding all day but like it kind of these are those like these signal points that you look at and go well, There’s No 1 doing PHP or there’s no 1 doing thing there like how can we help improve that you know and people like Nuno and that are doing. Superb job you know like he’s constantly streaming he’s constantly putting the stuff out constantly doing like the things to help promote it.
[01:05:37] It’s you know and you’ve got like laracasts that do quality content like like the video content they put together like the stuff that Jeffrey and the team they put together is amazing. It’s just like it feels like we need more of that you know like we need more of this kind of the these people working together to get to get it to where it needs to be, I think it can’t be down to a single person it can’t be down to Nuno because let’s put it in simple terms if nuno’s streaming every day for 6 hours what else is he going to be doing. And it doesn’t seem to sleep if you do everything that he doesn’t see anything, but you you are seeing some streamers starting up with smaller videos like pavlas post daily with laravel daily. And that’s a fantastic resource and Steve will stream 2 or 3 times a month. And here’s a fantastic resources but the needs to be more of us willing to do it and just. Be willing to make mistakes you know a lot of it is the fear of well if I get this wrong on stream then everybody’s going to look at me.
[01:06:42] Yes but that’s kind of the point that people are looking at what you’re doing and making mistakes on stream what’s more realistic. Making a mistake in the code and learning how to fix it on stream where people can ask you why you did things that weigh. Or hiding it behind a perfectly Polished perfectly edited video yeah. 100% mhm I guess that kind of leads us to the. The end because we’ve actually run over again don’t worry it’s me I mean last night it was an hour and a half long. I mean yeah know last night was was a really fun conversation there’s so much to talk about so, we just have to have people back on that’s it we’ll just fill next year’s program with all the people we’ve already had done I mean it works yeah because it’s you know there’s just so many things to talk to to everyone about and and yourself as well done but I want to say thank you very much for giving us your your time today,
[01:07:47] I will just remind everyone you’re most likely probably watching this on YouTube uh please go and subscribe to our Channel. Or if you’re listening to it to whatever podcast methods you’re using please give us a review but head over to our Discord channel uh for just audio that is Discord PHP arch.com where you can join in the chat there’s all sorts of people in there there’s people from PHP internals that package maintainers there there’s pitch P release managers all in that chat chatting away ask any questions answer questions if people ask asking questions you know the answer get known in the community that’s. Do as we’ve said earlier get Loan in the community talk about anything you want we there’s people that post, pictures of of their pets in there and I’ll get you noticed trust me magazine discount don’t forget to head over and subscribe to the pitch B architect magazine alive 3 will give you 3 your first 3,
[01:08:48] months free. For a digital subscription that is the time to switch so we need to have a bigger thing to say all that so I don’t have to keep saying that over and over again PHP Tech. Uh tickets are on sale you can come and join us in May of uh 26 over in Chicago the. Don’t know I don’t think the the speakers would have been announced by the time we release this episode it will probably more likely be sort of January time generally we will let you know, who’s who’s speaking we’ve got to go through the regular oil of picking all those those talks now, and then swag head over to our our store our store Page pr.com. And you can uh check out the different t-shirts caps hats. Cups a lot of stuff there’s not all sorts of things over there but thank you very much for everyone listening or watching thank you very much stand again for your time today. And we’ll catch up with everyone soon take it easy take it.
| Air date | November 14, 2025 |
|---|---|
| Hosted by | Mike Page, Chris Page |
| Guest(s) | Dan Newns |
