PHP Alive And Kicking – Episode 16 – Wendell Adriel
Wendell joins the show with a literal fire background (the “this is fine” meme), which he admits he can’t use anymore because of company backgrounds. But it’s an accurate representation of daily developer life, and we can all relate.
Teaching PHP Six Months After Learning It
At 16 years old, working in a small-town Brazilian school teaching Word and Excel, Wendell took a PHP course. Five or six months later, the teacher left and they asked Wendell to take over—teaching PHP to 13 and 14-year-olds when he was barely older himself. Students would ask questions he didn’t know the answer to, forcing him to say “give me a minute” while frantically searching the documentation. But that pressure? It taught him the most valuable developer skill: knowing how to find answers to things you don’t know.
No Computer at Home
Here’s the kicker: Wendell didn’t even have a computer at home during all this. He could only use the computers at work, so he’d finish lunch in 15 minutes just to get back to his desk and keep learning PHP. The obsession was real, and it paid off.
PHP Documentation: The Unsung Hero
Everyone agrees—PHP’s documentation is insanely good. You can find almost anything without even hitting Stack Overflow. Comments from 15-20 years ago still work today because PHP maintains backwards compatibility like no other language. Those old comments aren’t just relics; they’re still valid, working code that new developers can learn from. Try that in JavaScript land.
Rector: The Migration Miracle
Moving legacy code to modern PHP used to be a nightmare. Now? Install Rector and watch it automatically migrate your codebase to use new features. Wendell highlights this as one of PHP’s secret weapons—the community builds tools that make everyone’s life easier.
When AI Becomes Part of Your Workflow
some literally can’t work without Claude, Cursor, and PHPStorm anymore. Not because he needs AI for everything, but because the anxiety of “what if I need to ask something?” kicks in if it’s not there. It’s wild how quickly we adapt to new tools—especially considering 25 years ago we barely had IDEs. We had Notepad. If we were lucky.
The Imposter Syndrome Reality Check
Everyone Googles stuff. Every. Single. Person. It doesn’t matter how experienced you are or how many packages you’ve written—at some point, you’re searching for answers. The skill isn’t memorizing everything; it’s knowing where to look and how to find the right answer. Mike and Chris both admit they struggle with imposter syndrome constantly. You’re not alone.
PHP Can Do Everything Now
CLI apps? Easy. Web apps? Obviously. Desktop applications? Yep. Mobile applications with PHP? Absolutely—and Wendell admits he never thought that would be possible. With AI advancements and tools like the new official MCP SDK for PHP, the possibilities keep expanding. JavaScript might get there first, but PHP always catches up.
New Security Challenges: Prompt Injection
Frameworks already protect us from SQL injection and script injection. But now with MCP (Model Context Protocol) and AI integration, we have a new threat: prompt injection. How will PHP frameworks adapt? How do we secure AI-powered applications? These are the new challenges keeping the community on its toes.
Teaser: Laravel Service Container Deep Dive
Wendell drops a teaser—he’s publishing his longest blog post yet about how Laravel’s service container works. By the time this episode goes live, it’ll probably already be out. Worth the read.
Listen to hear why the PHP community attracts experts from other languages, and why everyone keeps confusing their show schedule with the video game Fortnite.
Links From The Show:
Wendell’s blog: https://wendelladriel.com/blog
Inside The Service Container: https://wendelladriel.com/blog/inside-the-laravel-service-container
Laravel Queues Under The Hood: https://wendelladriel.com/blog/laravel-queues-under-the-hood
Laravel Actions As A Service: https://wendelladriel.com/blog/laravel-aaas-actions-as-a-service
Best Practices For Laravel Applications: https://wendelladriel.com/best-practices-for-laravel-enterprise-applications
PHP Architect Social Media:
X: https://x.com/phparch
Mastodon: https://phparch.social/@phparch
Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/phparch.com
Discord: https://discord.phparch.com
Subscribe to our magazine: https://www.phparch.com/subscribe/
Streams:
Partner
This podcast is made a little better thanks to our partners
Displace
Infrastructure Management, Simplified
Automate Kubernetes deployments across any cloud provider or bare metal with a single command. Deploy, manage, and scale your infrastructure with ease.
https://displace.tech/
PHPScore
Put Your Technical Debt on Autopay with PHPScore
Honeybadger.io
Honeybadger helps you deploy with confidence and be your team’s DevOps hero by combining error, uptime, and performance monitoring in one simple platform. Check it out at honeybadger.io
Music Provided by Epidemic Sound
Listen
Podcast (episodes): Play in new window | Download | Subscribe
Transcript
[00:15] <v Mike>Hello and welcome to PHP Alive and Kicking, brought to you by PHP Architect, <v Mike>made better by our partners at Honey Badger, more about them later. <v Mike>This podcast explores the latest developments in PHP and what it’s like to earn <v Mike>a living as a PHP developer today. <v Mike>I’m one of your hosts, Mike Page, better known as Mike Page Dev. <v Mike>I’m a developer at PHP Architect. my co-host <v Mike>is a long-time contributor to our magazine and now <v Mike>a fellow team member Chris Miller hi Chris how you doing yeah good mate good <v Mike>good now we have a interesting guest with us today and I’m going to hand it <v Mike>over to Chris you can introduce our guest so <v Chris>Today we have a fellow php developer he’s written books he’s written um packages <v Chris>that many of you will be using let’s introduce wendell adriel hey there <v Mike>Hello hey <v Chris>Wendell hey how’s it doing seem to have a little bit of fire behind you is this okay yeah
[01:21] <v Speaker2>Yeah no it’s this is fine this is fine,
[01:27] <v Speaker2>how things are going over there yeah. <v Chris>Good good and yourself <v Speaker2>Oh good oh good here oh all fine <v Speaker2>besides the this is just the general day-to-day but it’s it’s all fine i. <v Mike>Think we all can relate yes <v Speaker2>Yeah yeah and and it’s funny because uh now i don’t use it anymore because now <v Speaker2>i have to use like some some company backgrounds but before i had this when <v Speaker2>joining the meetings and it was pretty funny to see the reaction of people oh. <v Chris>Yes i’ve done the funny backgrounds i had the tardis in interior at one point <v Chris>it took a long time for people to realize what it was
[02:17] <v Chris>so wendell you’re you’re relatively new to this podcast i don’t think you’ve <v Chris>actually been on before why don’t you tell us uh how you got started in php <v Speaker2>Um the first time i used it <v Speaker2>like i touched php code it was pretty interesting <v Speaker2>because i was working uh i had <v Speaker2>like i was 16 years old and i <v Speaker2>was working uh in a company in a <v Speaker2>local town it was in brazil like a really really small <v Speaker2>town in the countryside that i lived there and uh i was working in a school <v Speaker2>that teaches like basic stuff like word excel powerpoint So those are the things <v Speaker2>that I was kind of teaching people. <v Speaker2>But they had some courses on development, and one of them were in PHP. <v Speaker2>And because I was working there, I was able to do all those courses. <v Speaker2>So I did this course on PHP, started writing PHP in that course.
[03:23] <v Speaker2>And like I think it <v Speaker2>was five six months later um the <v Speaker2>the teacher that was uh giving this course was like leaving the the the school <v Speaker2>and then they asked me if I wanted to to take his place and then I I had more <v Speaker2>time to prepare I had to read more learn more about PHP and then I started teaching <v Speaker2>PHP to, it was like to teenagers, <v Speaker2>people that had like 13, 14 years old. <v Speaker2>And it was pretty, pretty interesting for me as well, because I was 16 at the <v Speaker2>time and I felt like pretty awesome creating those, those things like create a website, <v Speaker2>just typing some things and seeing a whole thing coming in, in, <v Speaker2>in the computer. I was, damn, that’s, that’s pretty cool. <v Speaker2>And at the time, I didn’t even have a computer at home. <v Speaker2>I used the computer only at my work because I didn’t have, at the time,
[04:23] <v Speaker2>I didn’t have the money to buy a computer at home. <v Speaker2>And I was pretty obsessed with it. <v Speaker2>Sometimes I was finishing the work or going into lunch and everything. <v Speaker2>I was launching in 15 minutes and then going to the computer to study and do things with PHP. <v Speaker2>And that’s how I wrote my first line of code with PHP. <v Chris>Awesome. <v Chris>So you were teaching people PHP from, what, six months after learning it yourself? <v Speaker2>Yeah, yeah. It was hard because sometimes not even like the people ask things that I didn’t know. <v Speaker2>And I had to, oh, just give me a minute. And I had to go there and search for <v Speaker2>the documentation and see something and help. <v Speaker2>But it was good because from very early, I started having this mentality of <v Speaker2>knowing how to get answers to things I don’t know. <v Speaker2>So I think that helped me a lot for my whole career, like understand how to
[05:32] <v Speaker2>get answers for things that I don’t know. <v Speaker2>And I think this is one of the main skills for a developer, right? <v Chris>Yeah i think that’s one <v Chris>of the things that i love about php the documentation <v Chris>is so in-depth you can you can <v Chris>find anything you want on the <v Chris>php docs page and then the frameworks in <v Chris>php also have excellent documentation it’s almost like php thinks about the <v Chris>community first which i think is amazing to to look at what we have around us <v Chris>and just go actually we can learn something and reteach it in such a short space of time exactly <v Speaker2>Exactly the documentation in php in general as you said it’s it’s pretty awesome <v Speaker2>since the beginning when i started learning i i’ve like it felt easy to to look <v Speaker2>for things and like i have this issue let me check in the documentation how I can,
[06:34] <v Speaker2>how this works, or I need to do X or Y, how I can do it. <v Speaker2>And we can find a lot of things in the documentation, not even going into like <v Speaker2>forums or those like Stack Overflow <v Speaker2>or other things, but the documentation itself had a lot of things. <v Chris>Yeah, and it’s incredible to look at those docs pages and see comments from <v Chris>15, 20 years ago on there that are still valid today because PHP is backwards <v Chris>compatible as far as it can be. <v Chris>But yet we’ve still moved on massively in what we have in this industry. <v Speaker2>That’s true. That’s true. And that’s a great thing, because people that were <v Speaker2>aboard since the beginning, it’s easier to evolve. <v Speaker2>And people that are just coming into PHP, they can get there in the documentation, <v Speaker2>learn and see those comments. <v Speaker2>And maybe someone is going to think, oh, this comment here has like 10 years.
[07:37] <v Speaker2>But if you just grab it and run, it’s going to work. Most of the times, it’s going to work. <v Speaker2>As it is there. And it’s awesome because,
[07:49] <v Speaker2>even for people that are joining in, they can already use the knowledge that <v Speaker2>people that were like aboard from 10 or 15, 20 years ago. <v Speaker2>And it’s awesome because there are some other technologies that this is not true. <v Speaker2>There is a lot of breaking changes from when it starts evolving, <v Speaker2>it starts getting a lot of breaking changes. <v Chris>I mean php does have <v Chris>its breaking changes at different points but they’re <v Chris>minor breaking changes they’re things that are you’ll <v Chris>usually find deprecations are because there’s a new way of doing it that is <v Chris>more useful or more type safe or just faster is that i mean we we’ve we’ve recently <v Chris>done an episode with um with sarah Goldman from PHP, <v Chris>the PHP Foundation. <v Chris>And in PHP 8.5, we actually discovered there was a feature that was deprecated, <v Chris>mainly because nobody uses it, because I don’t know it’s even there.
[08:53] <v Speaker2>Is that that’s. <v Chris>Kind of amusing that there are people out there that don’t even know that features <v Chris>exist because they’ve moved on and have been replaced with new forms <v Speaker2>Yeah yeah and like uh the <v Speaker2>the great thing uh uh from from <v Speaker2>php the community itself and even like <v Speaker2>if you are like moving some i don’t <v Speaker2>know legacy project is that we also have <v Speaker2>like amazing packages to help on everything for <v Speaker2>example um rector rector we can just install rector and start migrating a legacy <v Speaker2>code base to new features without a lot of issues and and like all the manual <v Speaker2>work that we will need to do and that’s awesome yeah. <v Chris>And you also find that people will develop packages for things that are like <v Chris>little itches for them i mean look at a couple years ago, we put out strictest
[09:50] <v Chris>because you didn’t have the ability to have type safety within functions. <v Chris>So you create a variable and you couldn’t know that it was type safe. <v Chris>So we created a package for it. <v Chris>And that happens all the time with people. <v Chris>They’ll just create a package to fix this tiny little itch that they’ve got <v Chris>in PHP of something that they want it to do. <v Chris>PHP makes that almost second nature because of the way Composer works. <v Speaker2>Yeah, yeah. It’s pretty easy to just build a package, as you said, <v Speaker2>to help with something that the language doesn’t provide yet. <v Speaker2>And really easy, someone can just publish it, and then everyone can just do <v Speaker2>a Composer required, get it, start using, and that’s it. <v Speaker2>And like talking about <v Speaker2>the community itself I see that the <v Speaker2>PHP community is pretty active on maintaining and
[10:50] <v Speaker2>creating new things and that’s great because it <v Speaker2>keeps maintaining and renewing the language <v Speaker2>and the community itself because every time someone creates a package and publishes <v Speaker2>it and starts getting some traction more people will start contributing to it <v Speaker2>And then it gets like a snowball of good things. <v Speaker2>And I find that that’s awesome. <v Chris>Yeah. <v Mike>I’ve certainly found everyone I’ve met in the community has got a passion to <v Mike>keep growing the language and keep growing the community and trying to just help everyone out. <v Mike>I’m relatively new into development. I was a late bloomer, as we’d say. <v Mike>So it’s been really nice meeting all these people, being able to ask questions <v Mike>yes the documentation is great, some of it I’ve found that I needed a bit more <v Mike>explanation so I’ve jumped into a forum, asked a question and within
[11:55] <v Mike>sort of half an hour i’ve got an answer and i’ve understood and someone’s taken <v Mike>the time out of their their busy days to to help me grow as a developer which <v Mike>has been been great and very accepting community is how i felt wherever i’ve <v Mike>gone uh so yeah it’s brilliant yeah and <v Chris>That is for me the biggest strength of <v Chris>php put aside the fact that the language <v Chris>can do basically anything put aside the fact that you’ve got <v Chris>people like Nuno that are writing packages in their <v Chris>sleep for no apparent reason put aside <v Chris>the fact that you’ve got frameworks as powerful as <v Chris>Laravel I can go on Twitter I can ask a question and within 10 minutes the owner <v Chris>of that package has probably replied to me and it’s like that that in itself <v Chris>is incredible that the people that you look up to as these people are gods will
[12:49] <v Chris>literally answer your questions <v Mike>Yeah i i <v Mike>have i remember trying to get xd bug up <v Mike>and running um this is before i was working <v Mike>professionally i was just doing some hobby <v Mike>stuff and i i did post <v Mike>something on on twitter and yeah <v Mike>derek was there within like five minutes talking me through to what i have to <v Mike>do and i’m like at the time i i didn’t know who derek was i didn’t realize it <v Mike>was the maintainer of xd bug i had no idea i mean i literally didn’t know any names in in i just <v Mike>I think I must have heard about it. I started listening to Eric and John when <v Mike>they had the PHP Ugly when I first started learning PHP. <v Mike>I’m one of these people that like to hunt out the community to find that support, listen to podcasts. <v Mike>I have dogs that I walk, so I listen to podcasts when I’m walking the dogs.
[13:49] <v Mike>So I kind of thrown myself into it. And I must have heard of XpD Bug and I was <v Mike>trying to get it up and running. I was using…
[13:58] <v Mike>Uh, whatever, I think it’s probably, what is it called now? The Microsoft one, <v Mike>Microsoft code, is it? Is that what it’s called? <v Mike>I can’t remember now. The, the UID, uh, the Microsoft UID. I was using that <v Mike>and it was like, I couldn’t get any of this working. <v Mike>And then, yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s great how quickly the owner of it comes through. <v Mike>And I think a lot of people also don’t get, um, or don’t understand that moving <v Mike>slightly on, to, but still talking about the communities, the
[14:33] <v Mike>The conferences that we have around around the world um and <v Mike>the people you’ll actually meet in those conferences and you <v Mike>realize you’re talking to someone like you’re <v Mike>talking to sarah who’s one of the maintainers of <v Mike>php or you’re talking to derrick all of a sudden yeah and <v Mike>you’re having a drink and and things with derrick <v Mike>and playing ball games and things um it’s these <v Mike>people they’re not like what you might <v Mike>find in some of our other sort of areas of life that <v Mike>i have been in like the the top people uh <v Mike>in a different bubble there’s there’s separation between <v Mike>us as as the lonely developers in the bottom and then the people sort of make <v Mike>everything that we use if they’ve got a wall in between us and it’s like they’re <v Mike>not talking to us peasants but with php is one of the only communities i found
[15:25] <v Mike>where anyone will talk to anyone about anything I think.
[15:30] <v Mike>Apart from politics and religion we don’t talk about those <v Chris>It depends how late in the conference it is if <v Mike>It yeah me and derek did have quite a quite a political conversation when we <v Mike>were very drunk at php tech this year but we won’t go into that <v Chris>Speaking of php tech i <v Chris>i find it brilliant that you know every single one of us on this podcast has <v Chris>put in for the call for papers this year and that’s going to be open for another <v Chris>month or so from the point we’re recording this and we’ll open that up again <v Chris>every single year and the best thing is that with php tech <v Chris>it doesn’t matter who you are where you’re <v Chris>from whether you’ve spoken before whether you’re <v Chris>the world’s most seasoned speaker you you get <v Chris>to come along and share what you’ve <v Chris>got with a group of people that want to hear it and for me it was my first time
[16:30] <v Chris>at tech last year and the the experience there is what pushed me to the point <v Chris>of you know I’ve got to work here and three four months later I’m now working here um yeah which <v Chris>That wouldn’t have been possible without the community as we know it and as we have it. <v Chris>And PHP Tech, as you can see, they’re open now until October 31st.
[16:58] <v Chris>And there’s going to be a PHP Tech for some considerable time. <v Chris>So even if you do miss this year’s, put it in for next year’s, <v Chris>put it in for other conferences. <v Chris>That’s the beauty of this particular language. everything is just made so easy for you <v Speaker2>Exactly yeah yeah and and most <v Speaker2>of the conferences they are really welcoming <v Speaker2>for new new speakers as you <v Speaker2>said it doesn’t need to be like a seasoned speaker who <v Speaker2>created i don’t know a package that’s used <v Speaker2>by millions of people it can be just someone <v Speaker2>that really started and it’s really <v Speaker2>excited to share something and like the <v Speaker2>conference it’s open to that <v Speaker2>but not only that the people that are really supportive <v Speaker2>so they are not going there and thinking oh now i’m going to see this this boring
[17:55] <v Speaker2>talk or something like that they are like even that the people that are seen <v Speaker2>already know what you are going to to to to talk about uh you see that they are interested, <v Speaker2>they are hooting for you, they <v Speaker2>are shitting for you there, and even supporting you when you’re there. <v Speaker2>It’s pretty awesome. And it’s not something that we see everywhere. <v Chris>Yeah, absolutely. I mean, at PHP Tech, I got one of the guys listening to my <v Chris>talk on how to do event-driven architecture in PHP.
[18:36] <v Chris>He created the verbs package, and he asked me questions on Event Driven.
[18:44] <v Speaker2>Oh, man, yeah, that’s…
[18:48] <v Mike>Yeah, I’ve now been to two PHP Techs, and I’ve done a couple of conferences <v Mike>here in the UK and met some great people. In fact, I met Chris at PHP Tech.
[19:02] <v Chris>Yeah, we flew 2,000 miles to meet each other for some reason. <v Mike>And we live we live about a mile drive from each <v Mike>other an hour yeah an <v Mike>hour so not a mile sorry um an hour drive yeah um <v Mike>no i and i have had so <v Mike>many people say to me i should try and put in for talks i <v Mike>have quite a large fear of talking <v Mike>in front of people um this is one of the reasons why <v Mike>i’m doing this podcast is trying to get over that fear <v Mike>um and chris has basically told <v Mike>me i had to put in some talks for next year’s <v Mike>tech which i’ve done um i’m half hoping <v Mike>that they don’t get picked but i’m half <v Mike>not i kind of need to be thrown in the deep end to just get on with it and then <v Mike>i know i’ll be okay um i have a slight similar sort of background like like <v Mike>you do wonder where i’ve not so much with um teaching php my background was
[20:02] <v Mike>in theater sound and lighting <v Mike>and before I became a developer I was actually working in <v Mike>a secondary school where I had to teach part of my <v Mike>job was to teach tech so I was actually their technician I was doing all the <v Mike>sound and light for the school shows and the exams and the drama presentations <v Mike>but part of it was actually running a tech club a weekly tech club where I had <v Mike>to teach kids and that was a big step for me to try and <v Mike>Try and stand in front of people and talk. It got easier as it went on because <v Mike>I kind of, I got to know the kids that came. It was the regular kids every single week came. <v Mike>So you get to know them and it’s almost like having conversation with the same <v Mike>people all the time, which it is. <v Mike>But the thought of standing up in front of any up to 20 plus people and talking <v Mike>about a subject where I personally feel I…
[20:59] <v Mike>I don’t particularly have the knowledge or experience to be able to talk to <v Mike>some people that I see at these conferences, because as I say, <v Mike>you’re bumping into people that are writing packages that you’ve been using <v Mike>for years and you don’t know about it. <v Mike>You’re bumping into people that write and develop the actual language itself. <v Mike>So, so you, I’m thinking I’ve got to stand up and talk about a subject to these people. <v Mike>Have I got the right to do that? And you do. <v Mike>It was very interesting. I think it was Chris, you said something about a really <v Mike>interesting talk you saw once <v Mike>of a junior developer that just talked about how they found the answer. <v Mike>Was that you yep um so that’s that’s <v Mike>that’s kind of spared me on so hopefully we’ll <v Mike>see we’ll get i’ll get talked picked and uh i’ll be talking at <v Mike>php tech next year um i won’t be subbing into
[21:49] <v Mike>anywhere else i’m going to just go tech because it’s kind of feels like home <v Mike>a little bit even though i’ve only been twice uh saying to chris this year when <v Mike>i was there it felt like home when i get that get there it’s like a second home <v Mike>to me it’s really really bizarre sort of feeling And the atmosphere around tech, <v Mike>I haven’t quite felt it the same in some of the other conferences I’ve gone <v Mike>to, not just within PHP, but other areas of life I’ve done conferences for other <v Mike>stuff. You don’t get the same feeling. <v Mike>Tech just felt really like home. <v Mike>So that was pretty cool. And that’s helped me. And the encouragement from the rest of the community. <v Mike>That’s what you’re going to get. you’ve come over to to php <v Mike>um community and you’re you’re just greeted <v Mike>you’re welcome doesn’t matter what your experience is people
[22:40] <v Mike>will be there to help you um people are <v Mike>willing to jump on zoom calls to help you through <v Mike>problems i’ve had that before um i’ve <v Mike>had um eric before i <v Mike>worked for php architect i had an issue eric jumped <v Mike>on the zoom call for me now we live miles away from each other we’re practically <v Mike>on opposite time zones but somehow we found a time to meet and jump on a zoom <v Mike>call to help and that’s what the people are like in this community so yeah come <v Mike>over come over and uh we have our own little community if people don’t know about it in discord <v Mike>I’ll throw that up there. Come and join us in PHP Architects Discord as well. <v Mike>There are so many cool people that hang out in there.
[23:24] <v Chris>For anybody who can’t see the screen, that’s discord.phparch.com. <v Mike>Yeah, I forget this goes out audio as well. You should be watching. <v Mike>If you’re listening, you should be now going to YouTube to watch the video. <v Mike>That’s all right. Yeah. That’s it all. Yeah. <v Mike>Come to YouTube. Come over to our YouTube channel and you can see the show there. <v Mike>Cool. um so i think it’s probably about <v Mike>time to hear about one of our <v Mike>partners or the partner for this this this um <v Mike>episode honey badger let me tell <v Mike>you a quick story about our sponsor honeybadger.io one time a customer of theirs <v Mike>had a background job run overnight that caused hundreds of thousands of errors <v Mike>to be reported to HoneyBadger by mistake. <v Mike>Like many other error tracking and performance monitoring tools, <v Mike>HoneyBadger bills for monthly usage, and so this customer’s mistake was going
[24:22] <v Mike>to cost them a lot of extra money that month. <v Mike>If you’ve ever used a monitoring service, you might have experienced something like this. <v Mike>Well, fortunately for this customer, they emailed HoneyBadger’s support and <v Mike>received the most amazing reply. <v Mike>HoneyBadger was resetting their monthly quota and canceling their bill. <v Mike>This is just one example of how much the small team at HoneyBadger cares about <v Mike>their users. Ask anyone you know and you’ll hear similar stories. <v Mike>Go check them out at HoneyBadger.io. It’s free to get started and setup takes less than five minutes. <v Mike>Don’t forget to bookmark it. That’s www.HoneyBadger.io.
[25:02] <v Mike>Thank you, HoneyBadger. <v Chris>Yeah. So, Wendell, I hear that you may have just released a book. <v Speaker2>Yeah, yeah, that’s true. That’s true. I released a book about Laravel for enterprise applications. <v Speaker2>And it was funny how the idea came, because the first idea, it was that I was <v Speaker2>going to create just an article for my blog. <v Speaker2>My blog, it was like one year without anything written there. <v Speaker2>And I was, okay, I’m going to write something. <v Speaker2>And I started writing about Laravel in enterprise because I’ve been working <v Speaker2>for like over a decade with enterprise applications. <v Speaker2>And most of this time with Laravel in the company I’m working on right now. <v Speaker2>I’m there for like seven years and a half. <v Speaker2>And we have a SaaS application that’s like huge and we deal with like millions <v Speaker2>and billions of records and we use Laravel for that.
[26:09] <v Speaker2>And then I thought, okay, I think I can write something that’s interesting. <v Speaker2>It’s not like an in-depth book, like with like, <v Speaker2>okay, this is like the ultimate resource for Laravel in the enterprise, <v Speaker2>but it has a lot of cool tips and tricks and some real world cases that happen <v Speaker2>with me with projects that I worked on with Laravel in the enterprise. <v Speaker2>And I started writing this blog article and then I was seeing like, <v Speaker2>okay, this thing is getting a little big. <v Speaker2>And I started adding like the subtitles that I wanted to write about And I was, <v Speaker2>okay, that’s going to be too much for a blog article. <v Speaker2>Let me create something different. <v Speaker2>And I always wanted to write a book about something related to development. <v Speaker2>I do like to create content, but I’m not a person that I like to create, like, video content.
[27:16] <v Speaker2>First, because I’m not very, I don’t feel very good in the camera. <v Speaker2>Like, here with you guys, it’s all good. But if I’m sitting, <v Speaker2>like, to record something, just to show me doing something else, <v Speaker2>no, it doesn’t work for me. I feel weird. <v Speaker2>And I, but I do like to write a lot. So I always wanted to create a book. <v Speaker2>And then I put together some tips, some tricks, <v Speaker2>some guidelines that helps having a good and maintainable application for the <v Speaker2>enterprise in Laravel. And that’s possible. <v Speaker2>Most people say like that, OK, PHP doesn’t scale, Laravel doesn’t scale. <v Speaker2>But that’s like, everything can scale. <v Speaker2>It’s just a tool, right? It’s just a tool and it’s how we use it that makes the difference. <v Speaker2>And that is absolutely a way to handle millions and billions of records, <v Speaker2>millions and billions of requests with PHP, with Laravel, with any tool we want.
[28:26] <v Speaker2>But this book, as I said, it’s not like an in-depth ultimate resource, <v Speaker2>but here you are going to find quick and actionable items that you can start <v Speaker2>adding to your code bases and get them into a better shape. <v Speaker2>So that’s the idea of the book.
[28:49] <v Chris>And I hear it’s been going pretty well in terms of sales. <v Speaker2>Yeah, yeah. Oh, I was not expecting it to go like that well. <v Speaker2>I think the last time I saw, I think it was already on 370 copies sold and something like that. Yeah. <v Speaker2>And like, it’s amazing. It’s amazing. For me, it was something that I was really not expecting. <v Speaker2>I was expecting, like, okay, I’m going to put it there, and I didn’t want to <v Speaker2>put a value that was too high, because first, <v Speaker2>as I said, it’s not an in-depth resource, it’s not something like, <v Speaker2>okay, it’s the ultimate guide for anything, but also because I wanted to be <v Speaker2>accessible for more people. <v Speaker2>So I put a price that I think it’s reasonable and it also has the purchase power parity in the website. <v Speaker2>So depending on where you’re located, you can get a discount.
[29:54] <v Speaker2>So it’s easier for people to get that book. <v Speaker2>And last time I sold, I had like, and it’s pretty amazing seeing that I had <v Speaker2>like, it’s not a lot of books, but I had like two books sold in Japan. <v Speaker2>Like one book in Korea, like one book in, I don’t even remember the name of <v Speaker2>the country because I didn’t knew that existed that country. <v Speaker2>And it’s pretty awesome to see things like that. <v Speaker2>And this is another thing that’s awesome in the PHP community. <v Speaker2>Because like, I’m not someone that has, okay, I’m like a famous person that built something. <v Speaker2>Awesome. I’m just like a regular guy there that sometimes posts something on <v Speaker2>my blog and posts some like tips in Twitter and that even though. <v Speaker2>People supported my work, like buying the book and sharing and talking about it, giving feedback.
[31:02] <v Speaker2>And that’s awesome. That’s pretty, pretty awesome. <v Speaker2>I was not expecting this outcome. <v Speaker2>And it’s not even because of how many money I’m going to get with that. <v Speaker2>But for me, it’s awesome how a lot of people trusted to get something from, <v Speaker2>as I said, someone that I’m not very well known. <v Speaker2>So I’m just some guy. And people still bought this book. <v Speaker2>And I find that that’s amazing.
[31:39] <v Chris>Yeah and you uh you also maintain a pretty cool package that i happen to use <v Chris>a fair bit and do you want to talk to us about your latest release because you’ve just released 1.0 <v Speaker2>Haven’t you oh we for for which package that. <v Chris>Would that would be the um the value objects one i could <v Speaker2>Yeah yeah yeah oh man that that <v Speaker2>that package for for the details it’s it’s <v Speaker2>pretty like it’s something that i started using not even when i was working <v Speaker2>with php the like the first time i had contact with the detail pattern well <v Speaker2>i was working in a java application and i said oh that’s, <v Speaker2>pretty interesting and then i when <v Speaker2>i uh i work at some years with java i i started working with php then i moved <v Speaker2>and worked some years with java and then i went back to php and then i i said <v Speaker2>oh i there are some things that i i was seeing in java applications that i think it.
[32:47] <v Speaker2>It’s good to bring here to PHP. <v Speaker2>And DTO was one of those things, mostly because PHP doesn’t have, <v Speaker2>it’s not like a strong typed language. <v Speaker2>So DTOs help a lot with the types. And then I created this package. <v Speaker2>I knew that there were already other packages out there, but those packages <v Speaker2>at the time felt like a lot more things, a lot more features than I need. <v Speaker2>I just need a simple DTO that I can validate the data when I instantiate this DTO. <v Speaker2>And then I build the package and it’s been pretty cool to maintain and to add new features to it. <v Speaker2>Right, I think last week, I think it was last week, it surpassed like 400,000 <v Speaker2>downloads. I was like, damn, that’s a lot of downloads. <v Speaker2>That’s the first time I have a package with so many people using it. <v Speaker2>And it’s good to know that something that I build is helping people out there.
[33:59] <v Speaker2>Of course, it’s helping me because I’m using it in a lot of projects. <v Speaker2>But it’s good that it’s also helping more people work with it. <v Speaker2>And one thing that’s pretty funny that two years ago when I kind of released <v Speaker2>the first draft version of this package I. <v Speaker2>Did a talk in Lisbon before the LaraCon EU in 2023 and I was going to talk about <v Speaker2>DTOs in Laravel because of the package and um. <v Speaker2>I was like really, really scared because it was quite some time that I didn’t <v Speaker2>do any talks and to be like, to get me more anxious, <v Speaker2>like in the crowd watching my talk, it was like Freak from Spati. <v Speaker2>That has… I was like, man, man. <v Speaker2>The guy that creates like a lot of amazing packages for a lot of them in the <v Speaker2>community and even has a pretty awesome like DTO for package right there like in the front row,
[35:20] <v Speaker2>watching me talk about it and yeah.
[35:30] <v Speaker2>Man what i’m doing here i’m pretty <v Speaker2>sure that a lot of people here it’s <v Speaker2>much better experience than i am <v Speaker2>to talk about it but the amazing thing is <v Speaker2>that sometimes i was getting like really uh <v Speaker2>really anxious really like nervous during <v Speaker2>the talk and sometimes i just look at <v Speaker2>like at the front row and flick was there like smiling <v Speaker2>and cheering for me and i was like damn that’s that feels so good a guy that <v Speaker2>has like that’s really i i really admire his work and spotty work to maintain <v Speaker2>i don’t know how they can maintain that many packages to be honest how do they. <v Chris>Actually have time to do anything else <v Speaker2>Exactly and <v Speaker2>and it’s so good that uh as you <v Speaker2>said like in this community it doesn’t have <v Speaker2>like this wall the separation of them and
[36:29] <v Speaker2>us and he was just there cheering for me and and when i was feeling nervous <v Speaker2>i just look at him and he will give a smile and it’s okay i can do it and continue <v Speaker2>the talk it was pretty pretty awesome. <v Chris>I find it amazing when you think of the number of people that use some of these <v Chris>packages and you literally couldn’t fit all the people that have used it in a stadium. <v Chris>And it’s like, how are we in the position that things that we write end up so <v Chris>popular that half a million, a million, in Laravel’s case, 25 million people are using it? <v Speaker2>Yeah, like 25 million is like two times the population of Portugal.
[37:19] <v Speaker2>So it’s it’s it’s insane when <v Speaker2>when we think about the scale it’s it’s insane and <v Speaker2>but it’s it’s really great as i <v Speaker2>said like for me it’s really great that i <v Speaker2>know that like i wrote something i created something that’s <v Speaker2>probably helping people that i will never <v Speaker2>know probably i’ll never talk with <v Speaker2>those people but it’s helping them in some project either it can be a hobby <v Speaker2>project or a professional project maybe companies are using it and and are and <v Speaker2>are like getting value out of something that that i create and i find this amazing i. <v Chris>I know for certain that there is or at least there was when i left one um financial <v Chris>company that’s using it and it’s being used in a financial company that’s worth millions <v Speaker2>Whoa whoa that that’s amazing.
[38:21] <v Mike>I want to just go back on something you said when you started talking about <v Mike>your book and about you really enjoy writing. <v Mike>You are on the same podcast as someone who’s got about how many, <v Mike>like Chris has got so many articles just sitting there waiting for us to publish. <v Mike>Have you published anything with PHP Architect in the magazine? <v Speaker2>Yeah, yeah. I did publish some articles. I don’t know how many, <v Speaker2>two, three, four, something like that. <v Speaker2>I was going to be one of the columnists, but unfortunately… <v Speaker2>When I was going to start writing, I had some personal things happening in my <v Speaker2>life that I didn’t have the energy to keep writing. <v Speaker2>And to be honest, I got totally burned out. <v Speaker2>I went out from social media for over a year. I was completely off everything. <v Speaker2>Open source, social media, and everything. just to recharge and get things set,
[39:30] <v Speaker2>get things back in place. <v Speaker2>And it was like, I don’t know, maybe one month or something like that, <v Speaker2>that I’m starting to get more active on social media, open source and everything. <v Speaker2>I’m starting to write more in my blog. <v Speaker2>And I don’t know, maybe Fatic once I can start writing again.
[39:53] <v Mike>We’re always looking for uh for more <v Mike>articles feature articles anyone anyone listening <v Mike>anyone watching you’ve got something to talk about let us <v Mike>know we’re always looking for articles it’s really nice to hear you’re getting <v Mike>back into the community a bit more coming back forward so it’s nice that we’ve <v Mike>caught you at this time and i did have a quick look over your blog you got some <v Mike>interesting um interesting articles over there that you’ve been publishing in <v Mike>the last few weeks or so. So I’ve got some reading to do. <v Mike>I’m going to be catching up on some of those sorts of things. So, yeah. <v Chris>So which one’s your favourite article on there, Wendell? <v Speaker2>Oh, sorry? <v Chris>What’s your favorite article that you’ve written? <v Speaker2>That I’ve written? Oh, that’s a hard one. <v Speaker2>One, like, I really liked the one that I wrote recently about Laravel kills.
[40:49] <v Speaker2>Because, like, it’s not that I’m, like, expert on Laravel kills. <v Speaker2>But to write this article, I kind of went in the source code and deep dived <v Speaker2>into it to understand more how it worked to then write the article. <v Speaker2>It’s not that I knew this from the top of my head. I’m going to write the whole article. <v Speaker2>But what I find interesting is… <v Chris>You don’t know the internal work of Laravel back to front.
[41:20] <v Speaker2>But what i find interesting is that it’s like <v Speaker2>okay this is a thing that i want to talk about <v Speaker2>and i i know some part <v Speaker2>of it but what if i spend like <v Speaker2>some days going into the code knowing <v Speaker2>how things work experimenting and then writing <v Speaker2>about it that’s what i find really interesting uh <v Speaker2>to to do and i really like <v Speaker2>this article uh if i i was <v Speaker2>like to put what’s my favorite one that would <v Speaker2>be the my favorite one now if <v Speaker2>you want to to get a funny story is that two <v Speaker2>years ago if you go into my blog there is there is uh um uh an article that <v Speaker2>i wrote about the action pattern in Laravel from two years ago and I wrote it <v Speaker2>and I was like really really excited to put it out and when I, <v Speaker2>I shared it on Twitter. Someone just say, hey man, this is not the best name for this pattern.
[42:26] <v Speaker2>If you want to go, you can go. I think it’s in the second page of my…
[42:35] <v Speaker2>Yeah. There it is. Laravel S.
[42:42] <v Mike>Oh, yeah.
[42:46] <v Speaker3>And like, I was really happy with it. I was not aware of <v Speaker2>That until I posted it and someone said. <v Speaker3>You couldn’t have chosen a better name for this <v Chris>Right I know what we’re doing this weekend Wendell we’re going to write a package that is called this oh <v Mike>Dear yeah so yeah we’ll take that down now
[43:21] <v Mike>oh yeah well it’s it’s quite interesting you you <v Mike>say that for the cues that you <v Mike>did that deep dive it’s something a lot of people do say if you want to learn <v Mike>something one of the best things is to try and write about it or in your case <v Mike>in your earlier days where you taught php you’re and you were learning it at <v Mike>the same time and that’s a really interesting sort of my thing you you don’t <v Mike>really understand something to its <v Mike>deepest level until you can teach it to someone else i <v Mike>think that’s quite a powerful thing and that’s something that john and <v Mike>eric quite often talk when they’re trying to get people to write for <v Mike>the article or talk at a talk at a conference or <v Mike>a user group is just find a subject you want to learn about do that deep dive <v Mike>put a presentation to together and you will learn that concept in such a deeper
[44:11] <v Mike>than you would do if you just read it and then just used it in an application so yes exactly <v Speaker2>Exactly i think that like when uh like <v Speaker2>the first thing is okay i’m going to read and this <v Speaker2>is the first step for learning i think uh we read something uh i don’t know <v Speaker2>maybe for example the lot of lqs i read about it and then i go and i try myself <v Speaker2>i experiment But I think, <v Speaker2>as you said, the best way to really have this idea, these concepts clear in <v Speaker2>our mind, it’s then now I’m going to explain it to someone else. <v Speaker2>Because then I do need to understand that thing and know how to put it in words or talking or written.
[45:08] <v Speaker2>Then someone else will need to understand what I am explaining so teaching is <v Speaker2>one of the best ways of learning yeah. <v Mike>Definitely I completely agree
[45:23] <v Mike>that’s cool one of the other things just going on to you say about the reading <v Mike>to learn something i also find i’m dyslexic so the reading isn’t always the <v Mike>best way for me to learn something <v Mike>looking at code examples is great but trying to read and understand concepts <v Mike>sometimes i find videos are a lot better and there’s a whole host of videos <v Mike>out there for anything to do with php and Laravel, for example. <v Mike>So that’s another great thing I find with the community. <v Speaker2>Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you can find resources in different formats. <v Speaker2>You can read articles. You can have videos. <v Speaker2>You have a lot of different types of resources out there, podcasts. <v Speaker2>So it’s picking whatever is best for us and doing it. <v Speaker2>For me, for example, I prefer reading than watching a video. <v Speaker2>I don’t know if it’s because I’m like a really anxious person.
[46:30] <v Speaker2>And sometimes when I watch a video, I’m always like watching the video in 1.5 or 2 times the speed. <v Speaker3>Just to have it finish quicker. <v Speaker2>And to read, I can, I don’t know, I can read some parts. <v Speaker2>I can skip some parts and get to the parts I’m more interested into. <v Speaker2>I really like to see code, like really check code examples, code snippets, because, <v Speaker2>for example, a writer, if I want to write a book, not talking about technical <v Speaker2>stuff, if I want to write, I don’t know, <v Speaker2>a fantasy book, what I need to do is read a lot of fantasy books to understand. <v Speaker2>And as a developer, if I want to write good code, one thing is I need to read <v Speaker2>and see a lot of good code to be able to write good code. <v Speaker2>So I think that checking code, it’s like reading code, going to a code base. <v Speaker2>It’s a great way to learn.
[47:40] <v Chris>And that’s something that I was taught a few years ago by actually a friend of ours, Steve. <v Chris>He said, you don’t know good code because you look at lots of bad code. <v Chris>You know good code because you look at a lot of good code. <v Chris>And you don’t need to sit there and learn all of the bad ways of doing something. <v Chris>Sometimes that can be helpful, but most of the time it’s looking at good. <v Chris>And if you look on YouTube, I mean, pretty much any time I go on YouTube, <v Chris>there’s one of five people streaming. <v Chris>It’s pretty incredible to look at it. You know, you’ve got people like Prime. <v Chris>He’s pretty much always streaming. You’ve got Theo. <v Chris>You’ve got Nuno. You’ve got Paniapau. You’ve got Steve. You’ve got the Laravel Office Hours. <v Chris>I can go on pretty much 24 7 and somebody will be on there writing code or talking about code
[48:40] <v Chris>and every single one of them will sit there and answer questions from the live <v Chris>stream and i mean i don’t know how half of them do it i can barely answer my <v Chris>own questions when i’m coding let alone anybody else’s
[48:56] <v Speaker2>Yeah, yeah, man. For me, streaming, like, it’s… I don’t know how they do it. <v Speaker2>As you said, like, I barely can, like, focus my mind on what I’m doing, my own questions. <v Speaker2>If I’m still checking, like, I don’t know, hundreds of people talking there, I would just go crazy. <v Mike>Yeah, but being sure, if there’s any coding in any of my talks, <v Mike>it’s not going to be live coding.
[49:26] <v Mike>It’ll be screenshots. <v Chris>Now, Steve, on the other hand, he will go on stage and he will have a blank IDE. <v Chris>And by the end of the talk, he’ll have a working application. <v Chris>How? <v Speaker3>Yeah, how? How? <v Speaker2>Man, I’m pretty sure that if there is a way to, like, I have a screenshot of <v Speaker2>a code and somehow someone created a way that I code, just click a button. <v Speaker2>And it would execute that, I’m pretty sure that at some point I was going to <v Speaker2>have an error with the code in the screenshot.
[50:07] <v Speaker2>Live code for me, it’s, man, it’s, I don’t know. It needs a lot of courage. <v Chris>I mean, I have done live code at small meetups when there’s like 10 or 20 people <v Chris>there because that’s different. You just turn it into a joke. <v Chris>But Steve streaming to the world or talking in front of conferences of a thousand people.
[50:29] <v Chris>No, I’m not doing that. <v Mike>Is it courage or is it more of the fact that they just accept they’re going <v Mike>to make a mistake at some point and it doesn’t matter? <v Mike>Whereas we’re too worried about making mistakes. Maybe they just don’t care. <v Chris>Yeah. <v Mike>Except the fact we can’t do it perfectly. <v Chris>Yeah. And that is exactly what Steve says, that part of his style is that he <v Chris>will make mistakes, but you’ll see him Google the fix. <v Chris>And part of it is showing his style of fixing it and working on it. <v Mike>Which I think is more powerful than actually having a video where everything <v Mike>is perfect and works for the first time. <v Mike>Because especially for new developers um <v Mike>that that let’s face it imposter syndrome is a big part of our industry and <v Mike>seeing someone that’s got that’s quite big in our community make mistakes and
[51:25] <v Mike>have to use google to find the answer it makes you feel good yeah does make <v Mike>you feel good that’s true <v Chris>Yeah if either if you ever watch nuno when he’s streaming you you look at nuno <v Chris>and you You think you wrote packages that are pretty much in every possible thing. <v Chris>You are part of the Laravel core team. <v Chris>And yet I see you Google the stuff that I’m Googling. <v Chris>Yeah, it’s, it’s that relatability of like, this guy’s a God, <v Chris>but he still Googles an if statement.
[52:00] <v Speaker2>Yeah, but it connects, it makes this connection with us because that, <v Speaker2>that’s, if you’re going to, to like, be totally honest, that’s what the job looks like. <v Speaker2>I’m not going into my IDE and doing everything one shot. <v Speaker2>Sometimes I need to Google. To be really honest, and it was recent, <v Speaker2>I usually use for each, for everything. <v Speaker2>And I had to write a normal, like playing four. <v Speaker2>And I was not knowing what was the structure of the four. i. <v Speaker3>Had to google it <v Speaker2>To make it work and i was man. <v Mike>I do that with switch statements i can never remember the syntax for a switch <v Mike>statement i have to look it up but i i have two screens and quite often the <v Mike>laravel and the php docs are open on my other screen i’m working continually <v Mike>they’re just there um so i can always just jump on there really really quick so
[53:04] <v Chris>I mean i have for actual coding <v Chris>three screens open at all times the first <v Chris>one is the idea the second one is <v Chris>clawed because i find that’s faster than google these days and the third one <v Chris>is amazon music and those three if i don’t have those three i i can’t work and <v Chris>it’s funny that even if it’s like i don’t actually need to ask <v Chris>clawed anything if it’s not there there’s like this anxiety of hold on um but <v Chris>what if i need to ask something i mean i could just open a browser but <v Chris>it’s weird how we get into such little tiny niches <v Chris>of how we work and somebody challenges that niche or something doesn’t work <v Chris>and it’s like i don’t know what to do anymore and i i remember back to the fact <v Chris>that 25 years ago we didn’t have things called idees we had notepad if we were lucky no <v Speaker3>Yeah lucky let’s so
[54:05] <v Mike>I think the message is to anyone out there that’s watching that we all sit and Google stuff <v Mike>every one of us yep every single one anyone you can think of in the community <v Mike>they will have to sit and Google something at some point it’s not about memorizing <v Mike>everything and remembering exactly how to do something it’s knowing that you can and <v Mike>And the skill to find nowhere to look to get the right answer. <v Mike>Yeah. That’s, that’s what I think. I feel quite strong about this. <v Mike>It’s, yeah, don’t, I mean, I get affected by imposter syndrome all the time <v Mike>and I’m sure other people do as well. <v Mike>It is something that people talk about a lot, but just remember, <v Mike>we’re all, we’re all human. <v Mike>So, all right, just, just to move on a little bit, <v Mike>Wendell, we, we’ve talked a little bit before we started recording <v Mike>what we’re trying to do here with this podcast we’re trying to sort
[55:04] <v Mike>of focus on some cool things that are in php new things like your book and you <v Mike>getting back into doing your blog posts which will be great i’ll be i’ll personally <v Mike>definitely be following following yours um what excites you about php now in 2025 oh man <v Speaker2>I think it’s like the possibilities. Like today with PHP, we can do anything, <v Speaker2>right? We can create CLI applications pretty easily. <v Speaker2>It has a lot of different tools for doing it. Web applications, of course. <v Speaker2>Now we can create desktop applications. We can create mobile applications with PHP. <v Speaker2>That’s something that I never thought it was going to be possible, <v Speaker2>to be honest. And someone went there and said, no, there is a way to do it. <v Speaker2>And now we can do it. And I think that with all those advances of AI and everything, <v Speaker2>it also opens new possibilities.
[56:07] <v Speaker2>For example, I saw that, I think, I don’t know, two, one, two, <v Speaker2>three days ago, I saw that it was released. <v Speaker2>The first version, I think it’s not on the stable yet, but the first version <v Speaker2>of the official SDK for MCP with PHP. And that’s awesome. <v Speaker2>Yeah, that’s pretty awesome. And in the company I work in, we were discussing <v Speaker2>about MCP for the last three weeks. And when I saw that, I said, damn, that’s good. <v Speaker2>This is pretty good. And if now, I know it’s in early stages, <v Speaker2>but having an official SDK for creating MCP, it’s another step towards having <v Speaker2>something official for it. <v Speaker2>And those things, it’s what excites me. <v Speaker2>Because everything that starts appearing, new things…
[57:07] <v Speaker2>At some point, they are going to reach the PHP community. It can take more time. It can take less time. <v Speaker2>For example, creating desktop or mobile applications, we can do it already for <v Speaker2>quite some time with JavaScript, for example. <v Speaker2>We didn’t have it with PHP, but now we do. <v Speaker2>It took some time, yes, but now we can do it. <v Speaker2>And the AI thing, now we have the support for MCP already on PHP. <v Speaker2>And those new things are what excite me, because I know that even that it can <v Speaker2>take a while to get into PHP, we are going to have some support. <v Speaker2>Someone, even if it’s not something official, someone will figure out a way to do it. <v Speaker2>So this is what’s exciting. <v Speaker2>And new challenges, new things to think about. <v Speaker2>Like, now MCP, it’s a whole different concept that we need to think how to build
[58:12] <v Speaker2>an MCP, how to secure an MCP server, <v Speaker2>how does authentication works, how we can prevent injections. <v Speaker2>Before we were talking and a lot of frameworks already has like two things to <v Speaker2>protect us for SQL injection, script injection. <v Speaker2>But now with MCP, we can have prompt injection. <v Speaker2>Now, how this is going to play out in the long run in PHP, in the frameworks. <v Speaker2>So those are things that I think that’s pretty cool to handle, to work with. <v Chris>And yet we have some amazing people in the community again already looking at that kind of thing. <v Chris>You’ve got TJ with Prism. You’ve got Ashley Hindle with Boost. <v Chris>You’ve got no end of people already working on AI. <v Chris>And that’s on top of the official framework. You’ve got people from outside <v Chris>the PHP community bringing their expertise into the PHP community.
[59:16] <v Chris>And that’s almost unheard of, you know, experts from another language going, <v Chris>hey, I’ll come and help you do it. Yeah. Yeah. <v Chris>I mean, PHP isn’t running 80% of the web for no reason. <v Speaker2>Exactly. <v Mike>It’s a good time to be in PHP. It is. It definitely is. <v Mike>There’s lots of really cool stuff coming up, coming in. <v Mike>There’s cool stuff already in the language and even more stuff coming along. <v Mike>And hopefully we’ll explore a lot more of that over the coming episodes here. <v Mike>But for now, thank you. I would like to say, Wendell, thank you very much for <v Mike>giving up your time and coming on and having a chat with us. <v Mike>Thanks. It’s been great. <v Speaker2>Thanks for inviting me. It was pretty good having a chat with you here. <v Speaker2>It was pretty nice. If you have any other thing, just call me. I’ll show up. <v Chris>Yeah, with pleasure.
[01:00:09] <v Mike>We’ll stick a couple of the links <v Mike>in the description for your website and things like that and your blog. <v Mike>So that will be in there and your package as well. So we’ll spread the word for that. <v Speaker2>Thanks. By the way, just a teaser on Thursday. <v Speaker2>I’m going to post a new article in my blog. <v Speaker2>It’s going to be like the longest article I have so far. <v Speaker2>It’s about the Laravel service container, how it works. <v Speaker2>And it’s going to be a nice read. I hope you enjoy it. <v Mike>Yeah, by the time this goes live, it will probably already be out. <v Mike>So, yeah, we’ll make sure there’s a link to that article in the description. <v Mike>So we’ll point everyone to that. <v Mike>Yeah, that sounds really cool. I’m looking forward to reading that. <v Speaker2>Yeah, yeah. Thanks. Thanks. <v Mike>All right. Well, Chris, I think it’s time for us to say goodbye.
[01:01:07] <v Chris>I think you’re right. <v Mike>And I have been criticized for using the word fortnight.
[01:01:14] <v Mike>I’m afraid it is kind of an English thing. I come to understand, <v Mike>I thought everyone used Fortnite to describe two weeks. <v Mike>So it’s every two weeks at the moment. <v Mike>That may change in the future, but at the moment the plan is every other Tuesday. <v Mike>I nearly said Thursday. That’s the other podcast. <v Mike>Every other Tuesday, 8 p.m. UK time, is when they’ll be released. <v Chris>So Fortnitely on a Tuesday, right? <v Mike>Yeah, exactly. I’m just explaining it in more words because I got in trouble. <v Mike>We’ve had a few comments about people thinking we’re playing Fortnite instead of talking about PHP.
[01:01:55] <v Mike>But hey, okay. We’ll move on from that. <v Chris>I mean, that does sound like a fun episode. <v Mike>Yeah, maybe we should. <v Speaker2>Yeah. <v Mike>Yeah, we’ll do that. Do that, do that. We’ll get in trouble. <v Mike>Eric will be talking to us now when he watches this video. We’ll get in trouble now. <v Mike>Right well we’ll say goodbye and we’ll see you in two weeks
| Air date | November 21, 2025 |
|---|---|
| Hosted by | Chris Miller, Mike Page |
| Guest(s) | Wendell Adriel |
